I recently gave up sugar when I realized I suffered sugar highs/withdrawal depressions and reached for it when I felt anxious, just like a drug. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318818
Food As A Machine Gun (Official Lyric Video) - Enemy Radio, Public Enemy https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tVP1zc0TCtJMra0yDY...
sugar sugar
call me late at night
by daylight
stomach busted
not feeling right
heart burnin'
I need oxygen
sweet and sour more addictive
than your oxycontin
>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…
Anecdote: My half-sister is a diagnosed schizophrenic and life-long weed smoker. It seems to me (and her doctors agree) that the two are absolutely related. She was likely predisposed to schizophrenia (because of her father - which we don't share) but I often wonder if it would have progressed the way it did absent the heavy smoking. I say this also as a pot smoker myself (but only lightly in the past decade or so).…
Same. I've smoked more than fair share of weed over the years and while I turned out ok (I think), two of my friends from back then have had their lives ruined due to mental health issues. There's no doubt that them smoking cannabis didn't help.
Yea, this is a very bizarre framing. I understand that researchers hypothesize that a Marijuana-driven causal link is possible, but theres a well-established, strong causal effect in the other direction that first needs to be controlled for. In that light, the statistic is framed very dishonestly in the article. (Though perhaps dishonesty isn't the correct word to use here: I don't have a high prior on the journalist…
I have literally seen an article before that said prodromal(pre/early onset) schizophrenia leads to Marijuana use, and I remember wondering at the time how they knew which way the causation went. I'm also not sure if it's journalists wanting to push one narrative over the other, or just a lack of understanding.
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it was both. What's dishonest/incompetent is the framing of changes like the statistic as if the causal direction is clear, without addressing the (to my mind more plausible) opposite causal direction.
Cigarette smoking also has a heavy association with schizophrenia, but the biases we have about it don't lend themselves to the kind of sloppy causality that you see with marijuana. I know you can legitimize biases by calling them priors, but then you need to show your work: those priors themselves should be based in harder data and explicitly referenced.
Otherwise, sloppy science (and reporting) become indistinguishable from considered priors.
>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…
There's a relationship between smoking cigarettes and schizophrenia too. I think this may be a case of people trying to self medicate for their conditions.
> "There has been emerging evidence of an association between tobacco smoking and schizophrenia spectrum disorders (SSD). Two meta-analyses have reported that people who smoke tobacco have an ~2-fold increased risk of incident schizophrenia or psychosis, even after adjusting for confounding factors."
I would like to see a study exploring the decline (if any) of problems from alcohol abuse in states where marijuana became legal. I am fairly certain that if I could have smoked marijuana when I was in the military then I wouldn't have developed an alcohol habit that has caused me so many problems over the years up until the time I quit.
Who doesn't know someone who went crazy from drinking? It's normalized, especially in the military it seems. A major difference between the long term negative effects of the two drugs is that alcoholics seem to mostly recover after some years of sobriety, but former cannabis users can receive incurable disorders like schizophrenia. More simply, the mental disorders of alcohol abuse resist being pathologized, we assig…
My official diagnosis is Substance Use Disorder.
The DSM 5 recognizes substance-related disorders resulting from the use of 10 separate classes of drugs: alcohol; caffeine; cannabis; hallucinogens (phencyclidine or similarly acting arylcyclohexylamines, and other hallucinogens, such as LSD); inhalants; opioids; sedatives, hypnotics, or anxiolytics; stimulants (including amphetamine-type substances, cocaine, and other stimulants); tobacco; and other or unknown substances.
I am sorry to say that you are most likely right. My father is[0] a psychiatrist in big psychiatric hospital in France (1500 beds, only psychiatry, nothing else) and he told me again and again that he was against the legalisation of marijuana because of this. The problem is that once you trigger schizophrenia you need to live with it, all your life... Note that he told me so, even if his work during the last 15 years…
I am pro legalization because I think people should get to make their own decisions about what they put in their own bodies, but I definitely agree that this aspect of marijuana use is somewhat downplayed by many of its advocates. Anecdotally, I have seen several marijuana-using friends go down the tubes. One became extremely paranoid to the point he was unable to maintain relationships with the people around him (be…
Yup, I still smoke regularly, but I have noticed that if I smoke a lot (and I do mean a lot), I start having paranoia when I'm not high, which is odd cause I don't have it while high. Once that happened to me and I realized the connection, I've scaled my smoking back a lot and it doesn't happen. My brother, on the other hand, smokes way too much, even when I was living in a legal state smoking a lot, he smokes more than I did, and you're spot on, when he doesn't have any weed, he is a hateful, mean, angry person, I've begged him to stop smoking so much, but of course he won't listen to me.
I am sorry to say that you are most likely right. My father is[0] a psychiatrist in big psychiatric hospital in France (1500 beds, only psychiatry, nothing else) and he told me again and again that he was against the legalisation of marijuana because of this. The problem is that once you trigger schizophrenia you need to live with it, all your life... Note that he told me so, even if his work during the last 15 years…
I am pro legalization because I think people should get to make their own decisions about what they put in their own bodies, but I definitely agree that this aspect of marijuana use is somewhat downplayed by many of its advocates. Anecdotally, I have seen several marijuana-using friends go down the tubes. One became extremely paranoid to the point he was unable to maintain relationships with the people around him (be…
"One became extremely paranoid to the point he was unable to maintain relationships with the people around him"
I would bet you anything that this person was using a high-potency grade of cannabis and/or smoking a lot of it.
If they just used a little bit of a low-potency strain it's unlikely they would have suffered from paranoia.
"several others became extremely unpleasant and irritable when they weren't high on the drug"
So, wait, these people became nicer to be around while they were smoking and this is supposed to be a bad thing?
I would like to see a study exploring the decline (if any) of problems from alcohol abuse in states where marijuana became legal. I am fairly certain that if I could have smoked marijuana when I was in the military then I wouldn't have developed an alcohol habit that has caused me so many problems over the years up until the time I quit.
Who doesn't know someone who went crazy from drinking? It's normalized, especially in the military it seems. A major difference between the long term negative effects of the two drugs is that alcoholics seem to mostly recover after some years of sobriety, but former cannabis users can receive incurable disorders like schizophrenia. More simply, the mental disorders of alcohol abuse resist being pathologized, we assig…
>>but former cannabis users can receive incurable disorders like schizophrenia.
No. This is the problem with pieces like the original article. "Schizophrenia link to marijuana use disorder" sounds VERY similar to what you just said. But they mean completely different things.
1- This study is specifically noting a correlation (note not causal relation) between 2 disorders, Schizophrenia and marijuana use disorder. Not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, and not everyone who smokes weed has a disordered relationship with it. The article about the study even points out the methodology shouldn't be translated to the population at large of pot smokers who don't seek treatment for their usage.
2- The study specifically notes that their results have not been replicated. Their results aren't even really anything other than "we crunched some numbers and found a relationship between 2 things". There are all sorts of great graphs here: https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations that show exactly how "useful" this information might be.
tl;dr- This study is not saying Schizophrenia can be caused by smoking any amount of weed, but too many people will think it says exactly that.
Exactly. The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough. You don't eat until the food is empty (ok well, sometimes we do..), you eat until you are full. I find it disappointing the same'ol propaganda reapp…
I find it disappointing and disheartening that you are dismissing peer-reviewed studies as "propaganda". Your argumentation is not that different from the one used by climate change deniers. The first study is commissioned by the European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction and the second was funded by a Senior Academic Fellowship from the Society for the Study of Addiction.
Peer reviewed studies disagree and dismiss each other all the time. Peer reviewed studies are often "propaganda". Peer review guarantees certain minimal bar and that your general structure is sane. Reproducibility and actual results are not necessary validated.
The larger scientific discussion where study is confirmed is after peer review.
On HN, they are specifically disagreed with super often. Especially anything "softer" It is not like it was taboo.
>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…
> It could very well be that marijuana puts you at higher risk of schizophrenia More likely, marijuana use accelerates the development of schizophrenia among people already at risk. > it could also be increases in the percentage of cases that actually get diagnosed, etc. This is generally a valid stock response to these sorts of studies. But it strikes me as a bit unlikely that there was previously a large amount of…
> But it strikes me as a bit unlikely that there was previously a large amount of undiagnosed schizophrenia.
As another commenter pointed out, US health insurance did not typically cover mental insurance until relatively recently, making diagnosis impossible for many.