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EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

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Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#391

Post by alkonaut »

nybble41 wrote: post #388
alkonaut wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every voter is one person and in all parliamentary systems I just vote for representatives/parties that push the opinion I want. This isn’t different from any other issue.

> ... in all parliamentary systems I just vote for representatives/parties that push the opinion I want. ... on perhaps one or two hot-button issues. You won't find any "representative" which actually represents you on more than a few issues (at best), so voters have to prioritize—and then the winners go on to vote on their constituents' behalf on many other issues which weren't major talking points during the electi…

Indeed - you won’t find a party (even in ten-party democracies) that represent you on every issue. In a two party system it’s obviously almost impossible.

If there are 5-10 parties then there is usually at least a neighboring party that you can switch to if your pet issue isn’t correctly handled by the party you regularly vote for. It’s also a lot easier to steer the opinion of a 10-15% party than a 50% party (with the obvious downside that even if the 10% party forms a government, it will be a coalition where it only has 1:5 weight)

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#392

Post by nybble41 »

verdverm wrote: post #22
young_unixer wrote: post #8

> The new rules would also prohibit providing anonymous crypto-asset wallets. Does that include open source wallets that you can run in your own computer, like Electrum?

your wallet == a BTC address, not the software or hardware you create or access it with

From the actual text of the proposal it seems "wallet" means an account hosted at a Crypto-Asset Service Provider (CASP). Nothing to do with crypto wallets at all, really. These are "Know Your Customer" rules; if you're transacting between two unhosted wallets there is no CASP involved and you are not a customer.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#393

Post by nybble41 »

Bancakes wrote: post #390
nybble41 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a feature, not a bug. In the "vote with your wallet" system you only get a "negative vote"—actually veto power—when something directly harms you. Which is as it should be.

It's definitely a bug. In the rare case where something is harmful, there must be a way to vote it down. This avoids rushing to the government to pass laws. Like the right of repair, I want to vote against Apple, not write my senator once a month.

> In the rare case where something is harmful, there must be a way to vote it down.

If you are harmed by it then you get a veto, which is better than merely getting to "vote it down". No action which harms you can legitimately be taken without your consent.

If you are not harmed then your opinion as a mere bystander on whether it is "harmful" is neither needed nor wanted.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#394

Post by nybble41 »

alkonaut wrote: post #391
nybble41 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... in all parliamentary systems I just vote for representatives/parties that push the opinion I want. ... on perhaps one or two hot-button issues. You won't find any "representative" which actually represents you on more than a few issues (at best), so voters have to prioritize—and then the winners go on to vote on their constituents' behalf on many other issues which weren't major talking points during the electi…

Indeed - you won’t find a party (even in ten-party democracies) that represent you on every issue. In a two party system it’s obviously almost impossible. If there are 5-10 parties then there is usually at least a neighboring party that you can switch to if your pet issue isn’t correctly handled by the party you regularly vote for. It’s also a lot easier to steer the opinion of a 10-15% party than a 50% party (with t…

Are you really going to switch to another party which is even further from your own position on several issues which are at least as critical just so that you can get some representation (from a fringe party with little actual influence) on an item further down the list?

Any party you choose is going to vote against you interests in some area, abusing your endorsement to back policies you disagree with. The ability to switch to another party which represents you even less apart from one "pet issue" which might not be your highest priority doesn't change that.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#395

Post by arcticbull »

thebean11 wrote: post #386
arcticbull wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volumes on USDT:USD pairs should be taken with extreme skepticism, after all, exchanges have a massive vested interest in the peg remaining fixed and are more than likely just arbitraging/wash trading to keep it there. It's hard to know with any sort of certainty how much actual volume is going back and forth across that pair. It also doesn't represent a redemption in any way vis-a-vis the backing assets so can at be…

Even the volume on a more trusted, US exchange like Kraken is pretty high. The fact remains that you could exchange tens of millions of USDT for USD per day with no issues.

Again, the volumes there mean nothing for all the reasons I said - it's not about trusted or untrusted. Binance has 17,000,000,000 USDT. [1] It is in their interests to support the peg, even if they have to go to Kraken to do it. And arbitrage bots participate, too.

Remember, the most trusted crypto exchange, Coinbase, wash traded 99% of all global Litecoin volume for a few months in 2016/2017. [2] And again, "exchanging" means nothing, because it's not a redemption. And the volume likely means nothing because it's probably just arb trades and wash trades.

95% of all crypto trading volume is fake. [3]

Nothing here is regulated. Take everything you see in crypto with a giant lump of salt.

Tether is a criminal enterprise [4], the fact that USDT is trading at 1:1 is an indication the market is completely untrustworthy, irrational or both - not that Tether is trustworthy. Be careful out there!

[1] https://wallet.tether.to/richlist

[2] https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8369-21

[3] https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/03/26/1206/nearly-all-...

[4] https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021.02.17_-_settlemen...

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#396

Post by thebean11 »

arcticbull wrote: post #395
thebean11 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the volume on a more trusted, US exchange like Kraken is pretty high. The fact remains that you could exchange tens of millions of USDT for USD per day with no issues.

Again, the volumes there mean nothing for all the reasons I said - it's not about trusted or untrusted. Binance has 17,000,000,000 USDT. [1] It is in their interests to support the peg, even if they have to go to Kraken to do it. And arbitrage bots participate, too. Remember, the most trusted crypto exchange, Coinbase, wash traded 99% of all global Litecoin volume for a few months in 2016/2017. [2] And again, "exchan…

I think it's a pretty bold stance that one of the largest US exchanges would be wash trading millions a day in Tether. Need evidence for that. Binance and Bitfinex are a whole different animal.

I'm fully aware (and agree with) all your criticisms of Tether, my point is that if I had tens of millions in USDT (as many real people who aren't affiliated with Tether do) I could easily exchange it for USD.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#397

Post by arcticbull »

thebean11 wrote: post #396
arcticbull wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, the volumes there mean nothing for all the reasons I said - it's not about trusted or untrusted. Binance has 17,000,000,000 USDT. [1] It is in their interests to support the peg, even if they have to go to Kraken to do it. And arbitrage bots participate, too. Remember, the most trusted crypto exchange, Coinbase, wash traded 99% of all global Litecoin volume for a few months in 2016/2017. [2] And again, "exchan…

I think it's a pretty bold stance that one of the largest US exchanges would be wash trading millions a day in Tether. Need evidence for that. Binance and Bitfinex are a whole different animal. I'm fully aware (and agree with) all your criticisms of Tether, my point is that if I had tens of millions in USDT (as many real people who aren't affiliated with Tether do) I could easily exchange it for USD.

FWIW I didn't mean to say that Kraken was wash trading USDT per se, but that likely other actors are 'holding the peg' at Kraken too by trading back and forth. Maybe aggressive arbitrage would be a better definition?

I agree you could probably clear 10s of millions via USDT:USD pair, but I'm almost 100% confident you could not actually redeem them.

Sorry if I came across harsh btw, I appreciate your thoughts! Tone doesn't always carry well online and I'm actually a pretty positive person haha.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#398

Post by thebean11 »

arcticbull wrote: post #397
thebean11 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a pretty bold stance that one of the largest US exchanges would be wash trading millions a day in Tether. Need evidence for that. Binance and Bitfinex are a whole different animal. I'm fully aware (and agree with) all your criticisms of Tether, my point is that if I had tens of millions in USDT (as many real people who aren't affiliated with Tether do) I could easily exchange it for USD.

FWIW I didn't mean to say that Kraken was wash trading USDT per se, but that likely other actors are 'holding the peg' at Kraken too by trading back and forth. Maybe aggressive arbitrage would be a better definition? I agree you could probably clear 10s of millions via USDT:USD pair, but I'm almost 100% confident you could not actually redeem them. Sorry if I came across harsh btw, I appreciate your thoughts! Tone do…

That would be extremely expensive no? They not only have to buy Tether (using currency they can't print at will) to keep the price up, but also pay significant transaction fees.

Totally agree you wouldn't be able to redeem it, I'm just saying the market seems to think 1 USDT = 1 USD. I honestly can't imagine they could keep that peg through manipulation..it would be astronomically expensive.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#399

Post by [deleted] »

max_ wrote: post #228
d--b wrote: post #141

I’m amazed by how short sighted most of the comments here are. When it comes to large financial operations, society has clearly chosen transparency over privacy. Cause guess what, tax evasion, money laundering, political fixing, terrorism financing are things that exist and really are hurtful to our economies. Stop fantasizing that the government cares about the shit you buy. This is not about you. And Bitcoin’s anon…

Bitcoin's goal was to help people "get out" of the traditional financial system "not inside it". Everyone knows where the real money laundering and terrorist financing happens. It is done by the likes of HSBC, Standard Chartered and other big banks. This is public knowledge, as we have seen with the Panama papers and most recently the FinCen files. Our financial institutions are too rotten for you to even assume that…

[deleted]

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#400

Post by betwixthewires »

qwertox wrote: post #369
betwixthewires wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, I should be able to spend a zillion dollars on whatever I want, as long as I'm not buying people it's none of anyone's business. The way to make sure everyone pays taxes is to tax property, or sales, or do a value added tax. Want a progressive tax? Higher taxes on second properties, or luxury items. Now you don't have any reason to need to know what everyone in the world has or does with their money.

Don't you think it's a bit odd that you have a zillion of dollars to spend? What makes you so much more wealthy than the rest? How did you obtain all this money? Are you sure it is clean money? What makes you so afraid of showing others what really big things you are spending that money on, won't they know anyway? Actually, you're just showing it to the IRS. Do you want to hide something from the IRS? So you are extr…

If it's not clean money bust me for the crime, not having the money.

No, I don't want the IRS to see what I spend a zillion dollars on, I don't want the IRS to exist. The comment you're replying to is mostly a sketch of how you pay taxes without some government agency sniffing your butthole.

It isn't about being afraid, it is about what's my business and what's your business.

You can't browbeat people into agreeing with you by comparing them to evil bad man.

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