Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#281

Post by Weebs » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

steego wrote: post #229

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It could very well be that marijuana puts you at higher risk of schizophrenia More likely, marijuana use accelerates the development of schizophrenia among people already at risk. > it could also be increases in the percentage of cases that actually get diagnosed, etc. This is generally a valid stock response to these sorts of studies. But it strikes me as a bit unlikely that there was previously a large amount of…

I think the increase in cases is more likely to be explained by a number of factors: 1. THC concentrations have increased which usually means there is less CBD. 2. Legalization probably increased casual use. 3. People who suffer from schizophrenia are simply more likely to be diagnosed for whatever reason. The sum of these three things could easily account for a significant increase in diagnosis. Sometimes increases…

The high THC and lack of CBD in today's strains is concerning (to me) honestly. I'm worried that a lot of the data we've seen in the past about chronic cannabis use being relatively safe may not apply when THC/CBD ratios approach 50:1, since CBD and other cannabinoids counter act some of THCs effects.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#282

Post by trutannus » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

theshadowknows wrote: post #265

I smoked weed the first time when I was 15 or so. A buddy of mine bought some from a friend of a friend. And we continued to smoke mostly on weekends for years. I stopped right around college in 2007 or so. Then a year or so ago I smoked some legal weed from a dispensary. And that shit almost killed me. I was nauseated and sweating and I vomited repeatedly for like two hours. And I couldn’t control my thoughts. They…

> I don’t know what the difference is between “modern” weed and the grown-in-the-ditch North Carolina weed I smoked in my youth. But it is not the same thing.

Doctors in Canada are well versed in this actually. The standing advice I have gotten from every doctor I've seen is to ensure some CBD content in the cannabis at all times to reduce the impact of the substance. That said, there's a push to have higher and higher concentrations of THC as a cost-saving measure, which is not generally considered a good thing.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#283

Post by mullingitover » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #259

mullingitover wrote: post #79

I've seen someone have a textbook psychotic break while consuming a lot of cannabis. Radio was sending them secret messages, coworkers were government spies, believed they were Jesus (and normally they'd been a confirmed atheist). As soon as the cannabis consumption stopped, the psychosis stopped. They started smoking again, symptoms came back. I'd also done some googling to try to understand why some people have pan…

It would be interesting to know more about the hypoglycemia link. I contracted type one diabetes as an adult, somehow, and was hesitant to try anything for the first time after that including alcohol or cannabis. I wear a continuous glucose monitor and as far as I can tell, cannabis has no effect on my blood glucose.

There's this study published in Diabetes Care[1], "Efficacy and Safety of Cannabidiol and Tetrahydrocannabivarin on Glycemic and Lipid Parameters in Patients With Type 2 Diabetes: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Parallel Group Pilot Study".

> RESULTS Compared with placebo, THCV significantly decreased fasting plasma glucose (estimated treatment difference [ETD] = −1.2 mmol/L; P [1] https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/39/10/1777.long

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#284

Post by southeastern » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #205

macksd wrote: post #47

>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…

When this kind of thing has come up before ("pot causes mental illness"), IIRC it turns out more that people with schizoid disorders are self-medicating with pot before getting diagnosed, rather than having taken harder drugs, alcohol, etc. The classic reversed-arrow of causation.

That could be a part of it, but there is a documented effect of marijuana "triggering" mental illness in those who are susceptible to mental illness. For a certain portion of the population marijuana use will directly lead to the onset of mental illness

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#285

Post by Weebs » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #136

qayxc wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, there's just too many variables here. The drug itself also changed over the years with current breeds having way more active ingredients than the ones used decades ago.

This part is easy to overstate. It's mostly true for the United States, although even back in the day there were strains (Maui was famous for this) which had nice crystals and were grown without males around to spoil the product. In Europe, hashish was the normal form of cannabis, and it's hard to make hash more potent than it already is. It varies in quality and strength like any natural product, but over a range th…

I don't worry about the increased concentration of cannabinoids, but I do worry about the trend towards extremely high THC content while other cannabinoids like CBD are barely present.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#286

Post by haswell » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

jbuhbjlnjbn wrote: post #233

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Typically when I was young, you kept smoking until you reached the desired level of intoxication then stopped. Do people do it differently now?

Exactly. The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough. You don't eat until the food is empty (ok well, sometimes we do..), you eat until you are full. I find it disappointing the same'ol propaganda reapp…

To be fair, if someone gets to the point that they’re dabbing concentrates, the minimum dose is pretty damn high, and it’s easy to overdo it. If a casual smoker made the mistake of smoking a dab, they might be in for a surprise.

Many of the vape pens are also extremely potent, and it’s even easier to overuse those.

I’m not saying the old propaganda has any value, but I do think it’s a lot easier than many think to level up to “heavy use” very quickly with modern offerings.

But even at insanely high concentrations, you’re still most likely to just have a bad time, not get seriously injured.

This should be addressed by education though, not regulation/propaganda.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#287

Post by mikem170 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

krylon wrote: post #198

hereforphone wrote: post #2

I can only speak from personal experience, which is of course limited. I smoked occasionally in my 20s, but not since (I'm middle-aged now). I've been friends and acquaintances with many people that smoke a lot. I see a trend among these people - not necessarily schizophrenia (I'm not a psychologist and probably wouldn't even notice a mild case) - but instead a consistent arrogance and self-importance. It's peculiar…

I can only provide a single data point, but I used to smoke a lot of weed for a pretty long time, then stopped about 12 years ago, and one of the changes I noticed was that I became much more able to accept responsibility for my mistakes instead of blaming everything wrong with my life on others. After I stopped smoking, I talked about this a friend who also quit weed around that time, and he said it was the same for…

Maybe growing older and wiser played a part? I've seen some of my friends transform attitudes like that significantly as the years go by, weed never being involved.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#288

Post by heavyset_go » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #129

macksd wrote: post #47

>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…

> Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking marijuana regularly. If cases themselves rise, it could also be increases in the percentage of cases that actually get diagnosed, etc. I think this is a good explanation. It's also important to ack…

I should also note that mental healthcare, in the past, was something insurance companies would fight their policyholders over, and many policies didn't cover it at all. The ACA and earlier legislation are responsible for increasing access to mental healthcare[1] for Americans, as they forced insurers to cover it.

So in the past, if you couldn't see a doctor, you couldn't get a schizophrenia diagnosis even if you had it.

[1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2020/aca-10-how-has-it...

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#289

Post by engineeringwoke » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

mthoms wrote: post #201

macksd wrote: post #47

>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…

Anecdote: My half-sister is a diagnosed schizophrenic and life-long weed smoker. It seems to me (and her doctors agree) that the two are absolutely related. She was likely predisposed to schizophrenia (because of her father - which we don't share) but I often wonder if it would have progressed the way it did absent the heavy smoking. I say this also as a pot smoker myself (but only lightly in the past decade or so).…

Similar story. I was a heavy smoker for ~10 years and was all for it, but I've since quit and realized how destructive it can be at high doses for long periods of time.

The discourse around how destructive it is encourages this thinking, similarly to how Americans struggle with alcoholism while Italians do not, despite the latter's culture of continuous exposure at young ages.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#290

Post by ipnon » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

okareaman wrote: post #14

I would like to see a study exploring the decline (if any) of problems from alcohol abuse in states where marijuana became legal. I am fairly certain that if I could have smoked marijuana when I was in the military then I wouldn't have developed an alcohol habit that has caused me so many problems over the years up until the time I quit.

Who doesn't know someone who went crazy from drinking? It's normalized, especially in the military it seems. A major difference between the long term negative effects of the two drugs is that alcoholics seem to mostly recover after some years of sobriety, but former cannabis users can receive incurable disorders like schizophrenia. More simply, the mental disorders of alcohol abuse resist being pathologized, we assign them sociocultural explanations like "he's going through a rough time." Meanwhile, he's clinically depressed, anxious, has mood swings, all direct results of long term alcohol consumption.