Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#221

Post by slingnow » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #183

tomphoolery wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it's about as strong as the correlation between schizophrenia and _any_ use of psychedelics. THC's effects have more in common with a psychedelic than they do an analgesic or stimulant. It's not a body drug, even if it sometimes makes you feel that way. If we legalized psilocybin nationwide, I would bet money that these kinds of studies would show "correlations" in schizophrenia use among those who have taken m…

I've always found that psychedelics are a far far different experience than THC, do you have anything to back this up other than "they both make you sorta hallucinate"?

OP made none of the claims you stated. Only that THC/psilocybin had more in common with each other than THC/stimulants.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#222

Post by heavenlyblue » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

codr7 wrote: post #177

GordonS wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I can't smoke it anymore, I get super anxious now and nervous I've heard so many people say the same thing, that they used to enjoy using cannabis, then some years later they find it induces anxiety, jitters and nervousness - I wonder what the mechanism behind this anxiety is? Is it as simple as "modern" cannabis strains having much THC than older ones, or is it something else, possibly age-related, like…

Like Shrooms, Cannabis will sooner or later confront you with aspects of yourself that you're not entirely comfortable with. There was always strong weed, and hashish; it just means you either consume less or fall asleep. Hormones are possible, I guess.

I heard this opinion so many times from new agey types who think they know so much wisdom about life. None of them are successful in any way or smoked weed in the same amounts as I or other stoner friends did.

On the hand every single person I know who abused weed (including me) by wake and baking themselves for years have stopped smoking basically because every time they smoked their heartbeat would go to 9000 and they just couldn’t feel good on it anymore (by good I mean just “not feeling like I am having a heart attack in purely physical way”)

Just to be clear it has nothing to do with paranoia, just physical effects - I don’t feel afraid, it’s just that there are no good effects anymore.

Weed never destroyed my life. I was a hugely high-functioning addict to be honest. But there’s no way I can smoke and not get my heartbeat to the moon.

So please, just stop this misinformation. You just never smoked enough of weed to get there.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#223

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

_jjkk wrote: post #203

Barrin92 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well apathetic individuals still rely on the society they are in, most of the time anyway. I think this is where the narcissism perception comes in. Most stoners in particular people who smoke a lot and for a long time at least in my experience become apathetic and to a degree dependent on their environment. They rely on others to organize their lives, even get simple chores done, they become sort of lethargic. And w…

Be careful not to over-generalize from personal experience... Maybe you've just met a few examples of lethargic, dependent narcissists who smoke a lot of weed? There is selection bias at play, as someone with an admitted negative perception of stoners you probably haven't put yourself in many situations where you might meet counterexamples. In my experience, I've met many stoners whose driving force is empathy and co…

I did qualify that I'm talking about heavy users but I don't think I'm over-generalizing. Any heavy drug use, or addictive or dependent behavior in general crowds out other things. That's just a fact of substance use.

Occasional recreational use is one thing but people who are high every day, they aren't able to be as present as they would be if they were sober, and in changes them in I think usually negative ways. Not even because of the particular drug they're using, but because of the patterns of behavior that come with those levels of consumption.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#224

Post by Animats » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

There have been other studies. Here's a summary.[1]

From the current data, we can conclude that the tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) component of cannabis can be the main culprit causing psychosis and schizophrenia in the at-risk population. THC can also be the one exacerbating symptoms and causing an adverse prognosis in already diagnosed patients. Even though CBD shows therapeutic effects and THC opposing effects, the data is minimal and low safety and efficacy warrants more research. The relation between cannabis and schizophrenia needs further investigation. We need more case-control studies and clinical trials with a larger population to get conclusive data.

So, something seems to be going on, but there's not enough data yet.

Years from now, the cannabis industry may face the product liability problems the tobacco industry did in the past, and the vaping industry is facing now.[2]

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32839678/

[2] https://www.cand.uscourts.gov/judges/orrick-william-h-who/in...

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#225

Post by winrid » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

What about medicated people diagnosed with Schizophrenia that then start smoking?

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#226

Post by vmception » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

One of my main goals is for real research to occur.

People have been saying or alluding to any psychedelics triggering schizophrenia for a long time.

Like, its almost dismissive and toxic, people want their psychedelics to be safe so bad that they'll tell people "you should have known that your were predisposed to schizophrenia before you took this, therefore your experience is invalid, its safe ya'll!"

Instead of these binary approaches to advocate for legality or illegality, I would just like normal clinical trials done and side effects listed in tiny print at the bottom of the bottle. This shouldn't be that hard of an ask, many approved drugs have "you may get suicidal thoughts and also might randomly die without doing the suicide" as a side effect, which seems worse than schizophrenia and these aren't scheduled drugs at all! Just do the studies and let us know!

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#227

Post by mnowicki » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

seph-reed wrote: post #182

macksd wrote: post #47

>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…

I get schizophrenia from smoking pot. But I also know people who get it who've never been pot heads. Something about THC is at the center of this. And also something about age. I used to be able to smoke as much as I wanted and just enjoy it, then one day it started making me crazy.. and I kept smoking for a few years and truly lost my mind. I've heard this story countless times... something (usually around age 20) j…

~18-25 IIRC is the normal age for prodromal schizophrenia to occur(the early phase where symptoms begin to manifest) so that makes sense. If you don't get it by that age it's extremely unlikely to start experiencing symptoms at an older age, there are younger children with schizophrenia but it's still much less common than people first noticing it around their early 20s.

And in your first sentence, do you mean you get psychosis or hallucinations from smoking pot? Or literal schizophrenia? Interestingly, around 19-22 years old when I smoked a lot, I had some psychosis-like symptoms, mostly auditory hallucinations. They weren't very disruptive or paranoid-feeling though, it was always the sound of a group of people at a party or backyard barbecue or something standing around laughing & talking, and I could only actually make out like 1/5 words. It felt very real though, I looked out my window countless times to see if my neighbors were having a 2am party in their back yard.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#228

Post by slingnow » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

doublerabbit wrote: post #24

Anecdotal however cannabis has many compounds, The two main ones are: THC and CBD. If your using a strain that has high THC and not much in CBD. CBD being the compound to safe-guard, governor the effects of THC you end up in a trip that can spiral out of control causing negative effects. If you add a CBD strain to the mix. Which are high in CBD and contain trace amounts of THC to your normal method usage, these tend…

Editing your post to whine about the downvotes will surely get people to stop downvoting you. Well played.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#229

Post by steego » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #189

macksd wrote: post #47

>> In 1995, 2% of schizophrenia diagnoses in the country were associated with cannabis use disorder. In 2000, it increased to around 4%. Since 2010, that figure increased to 8%, the study found. Worded that way, causation isn't the first thing this suggests to me. If percentage of cases associated with marijuana rise, it could also be that a larger percentage of the population is smoking and admitting to smoking mari…

> It could very well be that marijuana puts you at higher risk of schizophrenia More likely, marijuana use accelerates the development of schizophrenia among people already at risk. > it could also be increases in the percentage of cases that actually get diagnosed, etc. This is generally a valid stock response to these sorts of studies. But it strikes me as a bit unlikely that there was previously a large amount of…

I think the increase in cases is more likely to be explained by a number of factors:

1. THC concentrations have increased which usually means there is less CBD. 2. Legalization probably increased casual use. 3. People who suffer from schizophrenia are simply more likely to be diagnosed for whatever reason.

The sum of these three things could easily account for a significant increase in diagnosis.

Sometimes increases in diagnosis correlate with better detection. Sometimes they correlate with incentives to diagnose people. I’m not even suggesting a nefarious connection. Sometimes incentives with the best intentions can have a big impact.

Re: Schizophrenia linked to marijuana use disorder is on the rise, study finds

#230

Post by effingwewt » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #133

tomphoolery wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it's about as strong as the correlation between schizophrenia and _any_ use of psychedelics. THC's effects have more in common with a psychedelic than they do an analgesic or stimulant. It's not a body drug, even if it sometimes makes you feel that way. If we legalized psilocybin nationwide, I would bet money that these kinds of studies would show "correlations" in schizophrenia use among those who have taken m…

Yes indeed. I used to think cannabis was relaxing. Then I started wearing a watch which doubles as a heart-rate monitor.

To be fair, that could be just normal paranoia from smoking too much, or perhaps your body doesn't agree with that strain.

I have what's called a paradoxical reaction to whatever they use to put you under anesthesia. I wake up in a rage, they have to take me out very slowly.

I have a friend like this with marijuana. She finds indicas make her euphoric and energized and creative, when she should be couch-locked with a body high. Until she swapped types she kept getting super anxious and it led her to bad trips. But the benefits outweighed the downsides for her (she was able to eat and sleep normally).

Also- coughing (which you almost certainly will), will raise your heart rate.

So how do we know what is a bad effect of the plant in general? This is worrying to me, and as a marijuana smoker I would really love more studies to be done on it.