Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#941

Post by patrick451 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

lamontcg wrote: post #149

yepthatsreality wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but this goes beyond restaurants in my opinion. Look at these states that had mass migration of people during the pandemic. You will find the (big) sky-rocketing cost of living where those who are moving in on a whim are also not seeking jobs in the state. However all these businesses need employees to handle the new increase in customers. The employers aren’t raising their wages either, which is also not attrac…

everything about that analysis of the situation is backwards. the problem is the restaurants are seeing fewer customers due to the pandemic so they can't raise wages, while the upper 1/4 or so of the population hasn't been financially impacted by the pandemic and housing and rents have continued to climb. restaurants can't raise prices in this situation and they can't raise wage, which squeezes the workers who are no…

Long story short, Covid lock downs were the most idiotic, short sighted policy of the last 100 years.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#942

Post by dang » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 7:46 AM UTC

AKSucks wrote: post #860

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A casual search shows machines costing from $1k to $42k: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/14389/electric-fryers.html

Dang, I can get a countertop fryer for $180? Fried food's on the menu, boys! Quadruple bypass, here I come.

We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Please don't create accounts to do that with—that's against the site guidelines in its own right.

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Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#943

Post by tinus_hn » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 10:12 AM UTC

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

Unless someone throws a hissy fit and government shuts down business again, for months.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#944

Post by lumost » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #935

lumost wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasonable priced such as an in-state university? https://www.umass.edu/financialaid/undergraduate/undergradua... In-state: 30,656 * 4 = 122k Out Of State: 51,181 * 4 = 205k

You picked a total outlier, a very prestigious public school in one of the most expensive states. University of Utah, for example, is a relatively good school and costs about $8k / year for in state tuition.

University of Utah costs 23k per year in-state with a total cost of 27k per year including indirect costs. Out of state is 43k/yr excluding indirect costs.

If you looked at this 5-10 years ago your numbers were probably right. But interest rates are low and borrowers can borrow far too much money.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#945

Post by GFischer » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

kop316 wrote: post #235

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

That may be the case for some....but that is not the case for all. For one ancedote, my father in-law runs a restaurant with my aunt in-law (his sister). They are the only workers, and split the profits evenly. They are in the midwest (low taxes), and own the restaurant's property/building. They were able to completely shut down during COVID and restart back up, and have survived several economic downturns. They are…

In my experience, raising prices might have a small short-term effect, but if the product is good, sometimes you'll think it was overdue !!!

It has happened to my own fees, and I still should raise them (so I totally understand the fear behind it).

Plus, the United States has significant inflation now, which you aren't used to, but in other countries it's TOTALLY NORMAL to raise prices every year.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#946

Post by moate » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

sigstoat wrote: post #333

himinlomax wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most incredible thing about the US. Employers should be responsible for workplace safety and pay for it.

his employer surely had workers comp insurance, and big signs about it in the breakroom, which are required by law.

Of course they do! I was like 24 and just out of culinary school. The courses of action I talked about were the ones I was told I had by my boss (who probably didn't want a claim.) 10+ years late I'm much more aware of labor laws/practices but at the time I had no clue.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#947

Post by rendall » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

fridif wrote: post #910

rendall wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with you that a minimum wage potentially has unintended negative consequences for those looking to work but do not have valuable skills to offer. An employer may make do without rather than hire a day laborer for instance at an expensive rate. We might disagree on whether negative consequences are inevitable. By your assessment, though, it seems the seller's market is not caused by the minimum wage, but by…

No problem, I'm used to the downvoting :) I think it is important to distinguish a couple of things. If there are businesses out there, like maybe McDonalds or Walmart, who are easily able to pay $20 per hour instead of $7.50, and are choosing not to do so because of a desire for even larger profits, then yes, this is evidence of a mild seller's market for labor and also a lack of market savvy on behalf of McDonalds/…

That makes sense

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#948

Post by seattle_spring » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #944

seattle_spring wrote: post #935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You picked a total outlier, a very prestigious public school in one of the most expensive states. University of Utah, for example, is a relatively good school and costs about $8k / year for in state tuition.

University of Utah costs 23k per year in-state with a total cost of 27k per year including indirect costs. Out of state is 43k/yr excluding indirect costs. If you looked at this 5-10 years ago your numbers were probably right. But interest rates are low and borrowers can borrow far too much money.

Tuition is $9k per semester full time [1]. You're looking at costs that include housing, which someone needs regardless of their status as a student.

[1] https://financialaid.utah.edu/tuition-and-fees/cost-of-atten...

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#949

Post by curryst » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #736

flippertheD wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, all businesses run operations dif and have dif margins, so let's not forget that. I run a recruiting company. From our data a few things have popped up. First, people want higher wages in the lower wage industries. They are asking for $15-20 per hour. Second, lot of these people don't want to go back to the same labor jobs they had - they want to do something different. the problem with this is that they want t…

Why shouldn't a teenager make 20 an hour? At 16 your looking down the road at 2 very expensive options. 1) Go to college and earn a degree for 120-240k dollars 2) Start paying rent, owning your own car, healthcare, food, and leisure activities. Both of these are expensive directions to take. It used to be that someone could pay for school with a summer job, why shouldn't it be now? It doesn't appear the education cha…

The inability to pay for college is more an artifact of the insane increase in college prices than it is the pay. Inflation hasn't been kind on minimum wage, but the effect is less drastic than the increase in college prices.

Also, as others have pointed out, teenagers tend to be less reliable employees. One part of that is that they don't need the job, at least in an "I might starve and be homeless if I get fired" sense. Another part is that if they're only working for the summer, they're unlikely to have time to become exemplary employees.

As a society, I agree it makes sense for teenagers to be able to pay for their own education with reasonable work. As a business, I don't think I would see that as my problem to solve directly, and probably not one I could even afford to fix even if I wanted to.

The average in-state tuition in the US (so sticking to the cheaper side) is $10,440/year. There's roughly 10 weeks of summer break, so 400 hours of work assuming a 40 hour work week. You need to make $26/hr after taxes and save every penny of your paycheck to afford that tuition bill. Average out of state tuition is $26,820/year; you'd need to make $67/hr after taxes to pay for that over summer break.

Again, those are after-tax numbers, so you'd have to make north of $30/hour pre-tax to be able to pay for in-state tuition. I just don't see that happening.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#950

Post by partiallypro » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

ngngngng wrote: post #424

minikites wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of people to work them, the owners are just not willing to pay a market wage.

It's difficult for one restaurant paying living wage to compete with those relying on people working poverty wages. The businesses paying good wages will not be able to compete on costs and that benefit might not be passed to the customer. Certain businesses, for whatever reason, are more effective at hiring and retaining workers at low wages. Instead of forcing businesses to do the right thing and try and compete wi…

That would just benefit big businesses that can absorb the cost. Small businesses wouldn't be able to compete as their margins get crushed. I don't think people realize how cut throat the restaurant business is. It is possibly the most probable business model to go under with. I am not sure I want to live in a world where it's all mega corporations that I can eat at without spending a lot of money. Also as many have pointed out, this doesn't really address the problem since this is on a global scale including in places with much higher wages and no tipping.