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MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

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Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#171

Post by grishka »

marcosdumay wrote: post #163
grishka wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, that's a thing?! How do people install Linux then? How does that work with PCI cards that contain executable code in their ROMs, does that code have to be signed by overlords now?

> How do people install Linux then? Basically, when MS started requiring Secure Boot on Windows computers, there were a few anti-trust actions against then that looked at this action. So they back-pedaled and required that people should be able to disable Secure Boot on x86 and amd64 computers. They also created a 3rd party certification program, that those distros one buys could pay for and get signed. But make no m…

I just feel like if everything available gets locked down, people would simply resort to running more open OSes in emulators or virtual machines. Set to autostart in full-screen, so the only part of modern Windows they ever see would be the boot sequence. Like you could install DOSBox on an iPad and basically use it like a full-fledged early 90s computer, especially if you have a keyboard.

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#172

Post by formerly_proven »

tomc1985 wrote: post #168
marcosdumay wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More specifically, Windows is an horrible environment for C, C++, or Rust, Haskell, or any kind of language where most developers do not like IDEs. Bad for Python, Ruby, PHP, Perl where IDEs do exist, but it's not a given that they are better than simple editors. Not really good for Javascript or any language with extensive use of dependencies and configuration. It's not better than Linux for any language, but it com…

Most of Windows itself is written in C/C++...

Yet Microsoft's tools for C/C++ don't hold up. Visual Studio is stuck in the early 2000s (and frankly the UX is horrendous), everything is packaged in weird GUI tools, the entire environment is practically hostile to automation. The VS debugger is probably one of the best pieces, everything else is simply outclassed. Debuggers have also been supplanted for many uses by other tools, of which Microsoft has few and all of them are annoying to use at best. I really wouldn't want to be a developer for Windows that has to cope with debugging e.g. memory issues (on Linux, you put "valgrind" in front of your command, and it tells you the exact line number containing the error 98.4 % of the time -- yes MS has a number, that is, too many, tools to debug various issues, most of which are arkane at best, like gflags). The default for scripting on Windows is still batch, which is simply insane (since batch was designed within the confines of a single user single "process" environment with no memory).

And this is just lacking in the basics department. We're not even talking about Windows coping very badly with development workloads like reading/writing many small files (which is a design flaw in the NT kernel and will not be fixed, ever).

Of course, if you don't use any of Microsoft's stuff, there really isn't anything wrong per se, just annoyances (slowness, spying and other user-hostile behavior from the OS); IntelliJ is IntelliJ, Linux or Windows matters very little if you live inside it.

Edit: It shouldn't be a surprise that Visual Studio is essentially abandoned by Microsoft. Do you abandon good things? You don't.

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#173

Post by topkai22 »

Santosh83 wrote: post #8

Do tech aware people like nearly everyone in this forum, need Defender (or another AV) to run at all? How many people here completely or partially stop it from running?

Do professional drivers need to wear seatbelts?

The truth is that even really good technologists sometimes make mistakes. My insurance agent's email got hacked recently. I was in the process of renewing a policy, so opened the link to a phishing site and entered credentials. Oops. Thankfully I immediately noticed and changed the password (+ had two factor on.) Had that been an attached PDF instead I probably would have opened it.

At this point, consumer/end machine AV is a bit like vaccinations for diseases that are largely under control- attacks aren't spreading because the there are many protections in place, but if the unprotected population rises (especially in high value targets like developers) than the attacks will increase.

Configure AV? Sure. In fact just last week or so I had to validate that a server level product was really scanning user uploaded files correctly, so I had purposefully download known bad file (The sample file from EICAR) https://www.eicar.org/?page_id=3950). Getting defender setup so I could handle that file was annoying but manageable. I've also disabled real time scanning of certain applications and processes for performance reasons.

However, would I run without it on at all? Nope- I'm pretty good driver, but I still wear my seatbelt.

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#174

Post by grishka »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #164
grishka wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So okay, you again assume that software is immutable. But Windows has to store these trusted keys somewhere. What if I emulate the TPM with a key I generated myself, and patch Windows to trust that key?

You'll boot Windows but can't mount the system volume if it's protected by a Bitlocker key derived from the TPM key.

Even if you do a clean install yourself? Well then, gotta patch the installer. There's always a way!

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#175

Post by topkai22 »

bob1029 wrote: post #100
colejohnson66 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you’d want to disable virus protection, but Microsoft has a guide should you want to: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/turn-off-defende...

> Follow these steps to temporarily turn off real-time Microsoft Defender antivirus protection in Windows Security. How long is "temporary"? > Not sure why you’d want to disable virus protection Because Microsoft's implementation drags ass when fighting with one of Microsoft's other terrible messes - visual studio. Also. It's my fucking computer.

You can (depending on group policy if domain joined) disable real time scanning on individual processes, files, and folders in a more permanent manner IRC.

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#176

Post by mszcz »

marcosdumay wrote: post #144
rovr138 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately it depends on what you need and what you develop for. If you’re developing for the Linux kernel, I bet you’re missing out on some stuff. If you’re building web, it doesn’t matter. If you’re building docker images, you can do it on Windows/Mac, but there’s just better performance on Linux if you’re ever debugging speed. Java? Doesn’t matter either.

More specifically, Windows is an horrible environment for C, C++, or Rust, Haskell, or any kind of language where most developers do not like IDEs. Bad for Python, Ruby, PHP, Perl where IDEs do exist, but it's not a given that they are better than simple editors. Not really good for Javascript or any language with extensive use of dependencies and configuration. It's not better than Linux for any language, but it com…

Years ago I did some C++ development using Borland C++ Builder on Windows and couldn't find any problems or annoyances. I've been doing web dev (both front and backend) for a decade or so and can't really complain about anything really.

Developing in JavaScript and dealing with node_modules/node_modules/node_... is platform agnostic problem I think ;)

EDIT: What I like about developing on Windows is it's stability (update restarts notwithstanding). I've had Linux desktops fuck themselves up on more than one occasion. Not that I don't like Linux but...

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#177

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

arthur2e5 wrote: post #138
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will contend that antivirus is a net-positive to absolutely nobody. Not technically adept users, not office workers, not grandma, nobody. It slows down literally everything you do with your computer in the best case. In the worst case it breaks things and is itself an exploitation avenue. Mostly it just isn't actually very good at its job and malware defeats it regularly. This is a bad tradeoff and other mitigation…

Oh no, it certainly helps grandmas and the one-per-classroom public computers (China, 2008-). You get all the USB sticks coming in and out, and before you know it you get that one obnoxious virus that hides all folders and replaces them with a .exe of the same name. And yeah they do boot from a readonly C: with some magic to make it appear writable per session. But re-infection is quick, especially when you have extr…

I think application whitelisting by signature is a better fit for that use case. If for some reason you are required to allow arbitrary applications then the malware protection is probably going to cause more problems than it solves anyway.

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#179

Post by greedo »

nix23 wrote: post #68
Fiahil wrote: post #52

I'm so happy to see a thread on Windows Defender, because my org recently switched antivirus software and I can't wait to tell you how bad it is ! There's a hidden feature in Defender, that will delight any user : it can turn your 15" MacBook Pro into a full breakfast machine. Want pancakes ? Start a zoom call. While you wait for your favorite video conference app to start, don't hope to finish your docker pull/save/…

Oh man....a mac with antivirus software...is your IT's mindset from the 90s?

Lol, we have to have it on our *nix servers as well. Despite the fact that it's almost completely useless.

Re: MS Windows Defender and DeCSS

#180

Post by tomc1985 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #172
tomc1985 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of Windows itself is written in C/C++...

Yet Microsoft's tools for C/C++ don't hold up. Visual Studio is stuck in the early 2000s (and frankly the UX is horrendous), everything is packaged in weird GUI tools, the entire environment is practically hostile to automation. The VS debugger is probably one of the best pieces, everything else is simply outclassed. Debuggers have also been supplanted for many uses by other tools, of which Microsoft has few and all…

Abandoned? Are you kidding? They're previewing the 2022 release.

And frankly VS Studio UX is not horrendous. Modern UX is horrendous, give me deep menus and toolbars any day of the week.

As for I/O, I've worked on large git repositories (aka tons of small files) on Windows with no issue. In a Dropbox-synced folder no less.

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