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Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

persuasion.community

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Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#101

Post by giantg2 »

Werewolf255 wrote: post #50
LegitShady wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain what Andy Ngo did that nobody should be able to have a different opinion of him without you dismissing him? JK Rowling is a billionaire who doesn’t need much in the way of connections anymore, but she is certainly constantly attacked and abused, and has lost many opportunities for standing up for what she believes in. That you don’t care about it and think that amazon still sells her books doesn’t mean…

Anybody is free to have an opinion on Andy Ngo but calling him, with complete credulity, someone who "became noteworthy by documenting the excesses of the far left" without mentioning his vocal and widespread reporting in favor of white supremacy, with the Proud Boys being the most prominent example, doesn't make me think the author is being genuine. If the article had a more nuanced view as opposed to pushing a poin…

"...in favor of white supremacy, with the Proud Boys being the most prominent example..."

I don't have much background on the Proud Boys. I saw an article about one of their leaders pleading guilty to destruction of property or something recently, and I didn't think he was white. So I'm a little confused about this. I would have thought a white supremacist group wouldn't accept him, not to mention it seems odd that someone would join a group to their detriment.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#102

Post by [deleted] »

Barrin92 wrote: post #38
Werewolf255 wrote: post #26

I was done after he actively defended Andy Ngo. I was very much prepared to support this article, but it starts out with comparisons to Maoist China with the most self serving example of that regime's actions, and keep going further. J.K Rowling refuses to let the mob 'get her down'. Should Harvey Weinstein have bravely rallied against 'cancel culture'? If cancel culture is such a thing to be feared, why is Amazon Pr…

It's a very typical kind of piece that starts with a self-evident, humble truism, i.e. "If you don't have anything to apologize for don't, if you do, apologize", and a Hamilton example to kind of obfuscate the tone and then the actual message comes when you bring in Andy Ngo and the 'far-left'. Even the beginning is silly. Bringing up the cultural revolution followed by "obviously I don't intend to compare anything t…

[deleted]

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#103

Post by nicklecompte »

incrudible wrote: post #99
nicklecompte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not planning to publish my comments in a newsletter and ask people to pay me for it. So I am really not sure what the point of your remark is - unless, of course, this is a childish attempt at an insult.

You set yourself up for it. According to you, one of the following must be true: - You are not smart. - You are smart. You do not have an editor. Therefore, you will write transparently stupid things. There is no contingency on writing a newsletter.

Since I am feeling charitable and get the impression you’re merely a jerk rather than a troll:

I obviously didn’t mean that any unedited writing is worthless, or that an unedited argument is inherently wrong. Clearly I meant that writing an essay without real editing poses a serious risk of making a bad argument - such as found in the newsletter whose argument I criticized. Indeed the lack of an editor on my HN comments has led me to make dumb arguments, just like everyone else here (including you, about 10 minutes ago).

So the only thing I “set myself up for” is a jerk on the internet with bad reading comprehension. This is a mistake I make every time I go on HN.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#104

Post by shoemakersteve »

incrudible wrote: post #99
nicklecompte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not planning to publish my comments in a newsletter and ask people to pay me for it. So I am really not sure what the point of your remark is - unless, of course, this is a childish attempt at an insult.

You set yourself up for it. According to you, one of the following must be true: - You are not smart. - You are smart. You do not have an editor. Therefore, you will write transparently stupid things. There is no contingency on writing a newsletter.

Not sure what value this is bringing to the conversation, everyone says/writes stupid things sometimes.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#105

Post by scohesc »

Werewolf255 wrote: post #50
LegitShady wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain what Andy Ngo did that nobody should be able to have a different opinion of him without you dismissing him? JK Rowling is a billionaire who doesn’t need much in the way of connections anymore, but she is certainly constantly attacked and abused, and has lost many opportunities for standing up for what she believes in. That you don’t care about it and think that amazon still sells her books doesn’t mean…

Anybody is free to have an opinion on Andy Ngo but calling him, with complete credulity, someone who "became noteworthy by documenting the excesses of the far left" without mentioning his vocal and widespread reporting in favor of white supremacy, with the Proud Boys being the most prominent example, doesn't make me think the author is being genuine. If the article had a more nuanced view as opposed to pushing a poin…

How is a gay asian man a white supremacist? Please give your sources. That's a bit of a bold claim, especially without providing evidence.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#106

Post by dabbledash »

eclipxe wrote: post #55
LegitShady wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately maybe the overwhelming social pressure doesn’t necessarily make an opinion true, just popular, or everyone else who agrees is just as scared to risk their careers etc as he is.

You are free to voice your opinion. Society is free to provide feedback to you on those opinions. If you have an opinion that a sufficient cohort of your peers in society feel is out of bounds for where society is headed or not compatible with the prevailing world view, society will provide corrective consequences/accountability. The system is working as it should.

I always wonder if people who make comments like this are old enough to remember when gay people were considered deviants by most of society.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#107

Post by dabbledash »

LegitShady wrote: post #59
eclipxe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to voice your opinion. Society is free to provide feedback to you on those opinions. If you have an opinion that a sufficient cohort of your peers in society feel is out of bounds for where society is headed or not compatible with the prevailing world view, society will provide corrective consequences/accountability. The system is working as it should.

I see you don’t have any understanding that in previous times, being gay had similar stigmas, which was obviously correct according to you - it was just society providing corrective consequences. It’s a bit of a trip to hear people who think they are progressive also think mobs harrassing people is ‘corrective consequences’. It’s just mob rule. The actual nazis attacking people in Germany in the 1930s would have been…

I was with you until the nazi thing. I doubt GP would condone actual violence.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#108

Post by incrudible »

nicklecompte wrote: post #103
incrudible wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You set yourself up for it. According to you, one of the following must be true: - You are not smart. - You are smart. You do not have an editor. Therefore, you will write transparently stupid things. There is no contingency on writing a newsletter.

Since I am feeling charitable and get the impression you’re merely a jerk rather than a troll: I obviously didn’t mean that any unedited writing is worthless, or that an unedited argument is inherently wrong. Clearly I meant that writing an essay without real editing poses a serious risk of making a bad argument - such as found in the newsletter whose argument I criticized. Indeed the lack of an editor on my HN comme…

I accept your apology.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#109

Post by badloginnew »

eclipxe wrote: post #55
LegitShady wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately maybe the overwhelming social pressure doesn’t necessarily make an opinion true, just popular, or everyone else who agrees is just as scared to risk their careers etc as he is.

You are free to voice your opinion. Society is free to provide feedback to you on those opinions. If you have an opinion that a sufficient cohort of your peers in society feel is out of bounds for where society is headed or not compatible with the prevailing world view, society will provide corrective consequences/accountability. The system is working as it should.

The Scarlet Letter worked well in other words. Maybe we should bring back public stonings, pillory, witch burning and other social credit feedback mechanism. An asshole free utopia awaits!

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#110

Post by LegitShady »

dabbledash wrote: post #107
LegitShady wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you don’t have any understanding that in previous times, being gay had similar stigmas, which was obviously correct according to you - it was just society providing corrective consequences. It’s a bit of a trip to hear people who think they are progressive also think mobs harrassing people is ‘corrective consequences’. It’s just mob rule. The actual nazis attacking people in Germany in the 1930s would have been…

I was with you until the nazi thing. I doubt GP would condone actual violence.

The logic is the same - if the logic works to defend nazi actions maybe you need to inspect your logic more closely.
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