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Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

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Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>am I the asshole" and idiotsincars are pretty normal places where people can politely disagree These places are echo chambners too you just don't realize it because you agree with the echo. Go on I am the asshole and give even the slightest hint of approval for a parent that's parenting in a traditional manner (e.g. approving of a "my house my rules" attitude toward an older teenager) and you'll get all sorts of hat…

These examples seem overblown, and likely a false equivalence

Or instead of pontificating from your armchair, you could go check and see that it's actually pretty accurate.

"It's a useless echo chamber" is the number one complaint I see about aita.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you go to /r/libertarian? It's hard for me to accept such a final "No" when there seems to be a sub for literally every viewpoint. However, I am willing to accept that those subs get brigaded and maybe that's what you're referring to?

A half dozen subs out of thousands and hundreds of big ones doesn't really change the overall picture IMO.

>Different subreddits will have different majorities with different views, no?

This was the comment you were remarking on, and I have difficulty reconciling "No." with the reality of all the different subreddits available.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#283

I think up and down voting are great, however what is dumb is that neither has a cost. If you think of karma as an economy, taking an action should have a cost. Of course this leads to the question: if voting has a cost, then how do people accumulate irrespective of themselves receiving a vote? You could give everyone say, a fixed number of karma to begin with that could then be allocated. You can then give people mo…

>You can then give people more karma for successfully being a user without being flagged or receiving certain amounts of negative karma for a time period.

So a few users only have to band together and target one individual to limit their karma spend?

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#284

I've wondered why Twitter seems far more toxic than Reddit (certain now-banned subreddits excluded) and I believe the downvote is a powerful tool used to achieve this, along with Reddit's community-style moderation, even though that can border on toxic itself at times. I wrote about it here a little while back https://unlikekinds.com/article/trolls-and-consequences-what...

As someone who once had a reasonably large (>5k) twitter following and has essentially given it up there are a few factors I believe contribute it being far more unhealthy than HN or Reddit:

- It's tied to your real identity (and your real ego).

We all know that pure anonymity creates 4chan, but being associated with your personal identity means that every "engagement" on twitter feels a bit too personal. On both reddit and HN being pseudonymous means you still have some sort of reputation, but up and down votes are always about how a community interacts with your ideas, not you personally. Even worse than facebook, you're primarily being judged by people who don't even know you. This sets up every tweet to being a basis for being personally attacked by strangers.

- Short message length abolishes nuance. On both Reddit and HN the most successful posts are often long, nuanced and typically make several points to draw a conclusion. This is impossible on Twitter. You can't discuss the nuances and values of both R and Python for data science work, you can only make flippant, reactionary remarks.

- Might makes right. The follower system is horrendous for any kind of reasoned discussion. There a plenty of well known, adored people out there that make factually incorrect assertions but it doesn't matter if they have 100k followers, they win the war for engagement. Forget about cases where it's not see easy to establish factual correctness.

All of these combine to make an environment where to feel good about your self you are naturally driven to write flippant content that will attract more followers (so nothing too controversial for your audience, no having complex opinions, you should fit into an easy to market 'identity'). You can resist this, but this is what the platform has been designed to encourage. It's sad how many thoughtful people I've met on Twitter that inevitably get sucked into this trap and start shouting out engaging garbage so that they can continue feeding that cycle.

Despite my complaints about trends in the HN community, several small things help a lot:

- largely keeping pseudonymity

- Hiding up/down vote counts! It's quite possible for one opinion to have an order of magnitude more support than it's opposition but both idea can be near the top and no one knows.

- Giving all comments a temporary boost in the page position to give them eyeballs and a chance to be heard.

Making votes invisible is probably the single most brilliant thing HN has ever done to keep this community sane. You can see "people agree with/like my comment" without comparing yourself to everyone else.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#285
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Reddit for over 10 years now and have to agree. Generally all the larger subreddits are fairly left. There have been some hard right subs, but most of the larger ones are banned now. I find a lot of the mods of large subs are quite power hungry too, for example r/soccer. If someone breaks some news, linking good sources, correct post format etc. mods will regularly take the post down and repost it themse…

> There have been some hard right subs, but most of the larger ones are banned now. I can't even begin to express the emotion from the thought that someone may decide to erase a part of your life. This is what puts me off social networks in general.

[flagged]

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#287
post #147

slashdot had this covered years ago. literally decades. 1. upvotes limited to +5. 2. votes categorized: funny, informative, insightful, etc. 3. number of votes limited per time frame and user karma. 4. meta-moderation: your votes (up/down both) were subject to voting (correct/incorrect). good score == more upvotes to spend. and yet, simple trumps good. i was very happy to see parts of this implemented in steam review…

Another alternative, which may be somewhat controversial, was introduced years ago in Menéame [0], a Spanish website which is somewhat of a cross between Slashdot and Reddit. In summary, they made the votes public . For every comment, you can see who gave it an upvote and who gave it a downvote. In my opinion the change was worth it. The positive effects are that it strongly discourages organised vote brigading, chea…

They should make it a lottery system and show a random 10 people. The threat/possibility may be enough discouragement.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#288
post #227
post #147

slashdot had this covered years ago. literally decades. 1. upvotes limited to +5. 2. votes categorized: funny, informative, insightful, etc. 3. number of votes limited per time frame and user karma. 4. meta-moderation: your votes (up/down both) were subject to voting (correct/incorrect). good score == more upvotes to spend. and yet, simple trumps good. i was very happy to see parts of this implemented in steam review…

>4. meta-moderation: your votes (up/down both) were subject to voting (correct/incorrect). good score == more upvotes to spend. Doesn't this lead to a keynesian beauty contest situation where people are incentized to vote what they think other people would vote, rather than by their own honest assessment?

maybe, but you don't know your meta-moderation karma, so you don't get beauty feedback. IIRC the karma was primarily impacted how often you'd get votes for meta-moderation.

from what i recall from slashdot times, it worked really well.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up/downvotes always have multiple conflicting dimensions. - The post is factually right / wrong - Confirms to the site rules / breaks the rules - I agree / disagree - I want to promote / bury this post - Reward poster with XP / punish I am usually very pragmatic and upvote a post when I want other people to read it (because I want to see the discussion, or because I want to spread the idea). I also upvote to reward t…

Didn't Slashdot have multiple dimensions, a post could be "+5, insightful" or "-3, off topic". If you squint you could say the same about emoji reactions on Facebook and probably other platforms, this post got 5 :heart and 2 :scary reactions. They don't have a visible one for relevance but presumably the reactions feed into one behind the scenes. I'm not sure any of these have been shown to be clearly superior to the…

I will die on this hill that Slashdot moderation was the best I've used. It made moderation or voting a privilege and not a right so I think people took it seriouisly.
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