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Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

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Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#21

Post by neither_color »

corpdrone2021 wrote: post #13

I realized this when Microsoft started reading the emails and attachments in my office 365 account, and having Cortana "helpfully" suggest various to-do items from them. The degree to which this seems to be the case has me convinced that the only way I will actually have any control of my data is if it's on a hard drive in my physical possession. And frankly I don't have time to maintain my own IT infrastructure.

I was mortified by Cortana auto-extracting todos from private emails but my father in his late 50’s said it was neat and very useful for him. So it goes.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#23

Post by raxxorrax »

moron4hire wrote: post #5

> I'm shocked that it's as high as 25%. Why would anyone say yes to this prompt? What do you have to gain? There have been plenty of studies and I've even done my own studies. Most people don't read prompts. Most people don't even register consciously that a prompt even appeared. They have gotten so used to clicking through prompts that they have become blind to them. Prompts are the wrong way to do almost anything,…

Same is true for advertising, here it is called banner blindness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banner_blindness

The advertising industry has probably some counter measures.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#25

Post by jamiequint »

nonameiguess wrote: post #18
pdpi wrote: post #9

The next to last paragraph bothers me: On Hackernews, they think it's "entitlement" to think that you can use free email and search engines and expect not to be tracked. The main problem with this line of thinking is that even if you had the option to pay for your email and for your search engine, some G**gle executive somewhere would mention during a meeting that they could add an extra $X million of revenue if they…

That doesn't seem like a fair representation. The quote there isn't saying you should expect totally free services. It's saying you have the right to expect not to be tracked . Advertising up until 20 years ago relied entirely upon context and behavioral and engagement studies were conducted on an opt-in basis on Nielsen families and focus groups composed either of volunteers or people being compensated for participa…

You do not, and should not, have a right not to be tracked. You should have a right to know if a given company wants to track you, and to decide if you want to still do business with them as a result. Similarly, they should have the right to know if you are going to block/evade tracking and be able to decide if they still want to do business with you as a result. This is how a free market works.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#26

Post by asplake »

raxxorrax wrote: post #17
pdpi wrote: post #9

The next to last paragraph bothers me: On Hackernews, they think it's "entitlement" to think that you can use free email and search engines and expect not to be tracked. The main problem with this line of thinking is that even if you had the option to pay for your email and for your search engine, some G**gle executive somewhere would mention during a meeting that they could add an extra $X million of revenue if they…

If you are strict with this argument, there would also be no free internet sites to visit. I don't need to use any of Googles services to be tracked by Google, although Facebook is probably the largest offender here. In social networks, friends of mine have shared my contact information without me even knowing it. So other people might pay with your data. And I believe the text is correct. You would pay and be tracke…

Websites are financed by people and organisations with all kinds of motivations and business models. Websites don’t all have to make a profit! It is totally unfair (not to mention nonsensical) to represent the above argument as leading to the inevitable conclusion that there would be no free websites.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#27

Post by irjustin »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #16
pdpi wrote: post #9

The next to last paragraph bothers me: On Hackernews, they think it's "entitlement" to think that you can use free email and search engines and expect not to be tracked. The main problem with this line of thinking is that even if you had the option to pay for your email and for your search engine, some G**gle executive somewhere would mention during a meeting that they could add an extra $X million of revenue if they…

I think the author's point is that you will be tracked even if you do pay. And indeed, I pay Google for gmail because some years I somehow slipped out of the free tier and had to start paying. At the same time, my email is unequivocally used by Google for tracking. I'm paying, and I'm still the product.

To be explicit, you're paying for the add-on storage. I think the distinction is important.

You can't pay for GMail unless you're part of Workspaces (GSuite). Am I still the product in GSuite? Well I don't get ads so... maybe not?

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#28

Post by benjaminjosephw »

pdpi wrote: post #9

The next to last paragraph bothers me: On Hackernews, they think it's "entitlement" to think that you can use free email and search engines and expect not to be tracked. The main problem with this line of thinking is that even if you had the option to pay for your email and for your search engine, some G**gle executive somewhere would mention during a meeting that they could add an extra $X million of revenue if they…

Wow, I thought you were about to object to the generalization of an end-usr denigrating HN perspective!

Okay, even if it is "entitled" to expect something for nothing, it's dishonest not to be clear and upfront about the costs. In fact, if you think the entitlement is misplaced then it's really a failure of the service providers in educating the users rather than a failure of the users themselves.

If you don't agree, it would suggest that you think the average user should be able to read the world the way you do and understand the subtext of "free" services without having to spell it out. Would you be suggesting then that it's okay to take advantage of people who don't understand this the way you do?

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#29

Post by j45 »

folkrav wrote: post #19
j45 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality has changed a lot about self hosting. Looking into it might surprise you.

Self hosting e-mail? With the trust issues you get with small mail servers these days, I've got better things to do than worry if that job application ever reached their inbox.

There’s more pragmatic ways to self host, other than configuring everything from scratch.. including email.

Lots of tools and suites like Zimbra and Mdaemon that can self host mail just fine.

Outbound delivery can use a service as well.

Look for options and possibilities and they can be found. Look for reasons not to do something and those will be found too.

Re: Even if you’re paying, you’re still the product

#30

Post by telendram »

Interestingly, the author manages to spend the entire blog entry without even mentioning Apple's own Ad Network. If there is a single example where you pay (the devices, the apps) and are nonetheless tracked (without even receiving a warning selection prompt, in contrast with _all others_ Ad networks), it should be this one.
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