Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

persuasion.community

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 143 posts

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#81

Post by textgel »

alimw wrote: post #80
Barrin92 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very typical kind of piece that starts with a self-evident, humble truism, i.e. "If you don't have anything to apologize for don't, if you do, apologize", and a Hamilton example to kind of obfuscate the tone and then the actual message comes when you bring in Andy Ngo and the 'far-left'. Even the beginning is silly. Bringing up the cultural revolution followed by "obviously I don't intend to compare anything t…

> Bringing up the cultural revolution followed by "obviously I don't intend to compare anything to the cultural revolution". Okay, then what's the point? He does not say that.

Agreed.

This is the paragraph that Barrin92 is trying to missrepresent.

> Let me be clear: The horror of Mao’s China was singular. I am not making a comparison to the death and destruction it caused or to the severity of the punishment that the mobs imposed. Instead, I am drawing a parallel (one that various journalists and commentators, including the pseudonymous Chinese-American academic, Xiao Li, have made before) to an instinct—the inclination to humiliate and terrorize

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#82

Post by IQunder130 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #5

Or you can issue an apology and change nothing. Companies long ago figured out this to be the optimal approach.

Company apologies don't work, they buy time until people stop giving a fuck.

Personal apologies generally don't work if they're anything beyond what is demanded by conversational etiquette, since the people demanding them usually just want an admission of guilt they can hold over you forever as leverage, and anybody who agrees with you will be disappointed.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#85

Post by LegitShady »

fzil wrote: post #71
LegitShady wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andy Ngo is a gay Asian man. Any claims of support of white supremacy seem like those calling Ben Shapiro a nazi - ridiculous on their face and guilt by association that doesn’t stand any test of logic beyond grossly painting someone with bad words because they don’t want him to be able to speak credibly. Perhaps the people who aren’t genuine are those who make opposition to antifa the same thing as ‘favour of white…

That's just weird, does being of jewish heritage make you incapable of being a nazi? There's certainly a ton of polish and slavic nazis. What does Andy being a gay Asian man have anything to do with the claims of him being a white supremacist?

No, what’s weird is calling a religious Jew and a gay Asian man a nazi/white supremacist. It’s ridiculous on its face. They’d have to believe in the righteousness of their own destruction, something neither had espoused.

It would be necessary to show strong evidence of it, which hasn’t happened, or else it’s just someone lying about them to discredit them, and doing so in a way that is utterly ridiculous.

In this case it appears to be a ridiculous claim with no evidence behind it - just a lot of bold lies from bold liars who are seemingly obtuse in the self interest of their ongoing smear campaign against a gay minority man.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#86

Post by LegitShady »

anigbrowl wrote: post #66
LegitShady wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain what Andy Ngo did that nobody should be able to have a different opinion of him without you dismissing him? JK Rowling is a billionaire who doesn’t need much in the way of connections anymore, but she is certainly constantly attacked and abused, and has lost many opportunities for standing up for what she believes in. That you don’t care about it and think that amazon still sells her books doesn’t mean…

Andy Ngo made his name with this piece of sensationalist propaganda: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-visit-to-islamic-england-1535... He's a serial fabulist, raising hundreds of thousands after getting punched in the nose and claiming to have a brain bleed, but jetting cross-country to Boston a day later. He's also a defendant in civil litigation for his apparent participation in a planned (rather than spontaneous) as…

I watched the link twitter video and he never does what they describe “laughing as they plan the attack”.

It doesn’t sound like he’s a nazi/white supremacist to me.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#87

Post by NoOneNew »

nicklecompte wrote: post #22

I don’t want to step into this particular minefield (nor should any progressive, really) but I thought this tiny part of the argument was unusually bad reasoning: > To give such a forceful statement on the nation’s most-watched late-night talk show, it’s fair to assume that Moreno must have understood the “colorism” debate and given her position serious consideration. Who honestly believes that people on Steven Colbe…

Yes, the interviewees are prepped before the show starts. This is pretty well known.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#88

Post by [deleted] »

NoOneNew wrote: post #87
nicklecompte wrote: post #22

I don’t want to step into this particular minefield (nor should any progressive, really) but I thought this tiny part of the argument was unusually bad reasoning: > To give such a forceful statement on the nation’s most-watched late-night talk show, it’s fair to assume that Moreno must have understood the “colorism” debate and given her position serious consideration. Who honestly believes that people on Steven Colbe…

Yes, the interviewees are prepped before the show starts. This is pretty well known.

[deleted]

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#89

Post by Quekid5 »

NoOneNew wrote: post #87
nicklecompte wrote: post #22

I don’t want to step into this particular minefield (nor should any progressive, really) but I thought this tiny part of the argument was unusually bad reasoning: > To give such a forceful statement on the nation’s most-watched late-night talk show, it’s fair to assume that Moreno must have understood the “colorism” debate and given her position serious consideration. Who honestly believes that people on Steven Colbe…

Yes, the interviewees are prepped before the show starts. This is pretty well known.

I think you might have missed the word "especially" before "prepared" in the post you're replying to. The language is also a bit ambiguous (see below).

It's well known that guest are (usually) prepared (by the show!) in the sense that they at the very least have a general idea of the major points of conversation, but having a full list of all the exact questions, etc. is quite a bit rarer (AFAIK, at least).

Regardless, the parent poster could also have meant that the guests themselves(!) do very little preparation with the information they get from the show. The amount of preparation by the guest would probably depend heavily on the agent, the contentiousness of the questions that they know about, how high the stakes are (e.g. first ever interview on Colbert for an up-and-comer?), etc. etc.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#90

Post by redis_mlc »

eclipxe wrote: post #55
LegitShady wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately maybe the overwhelming social pressure doesn’t necessarily make an opinion true, just popular, or everyone else who agrees is just as scared to risk their careers etc as he is.

You are free to voice your opinion. Society is free to provide feedback to you on those opinions. If you have an opinion that a sufficient cohort of your peers in society feel is out of bounds for where society is headed or not compatible with the prevailing world view, society will provide corrective consequences/accountability. The system is working as it should.

[dead]
Post reply on HN