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First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

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Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#71

Post by pelasaco »

bonoboTP wrote: post #64
varenc wrote: post #13

> "Whether this behavior is due to competition for food or to the decline of the rainforest's productivity caused by climate change will now be investigated in more detail." Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? These are complex social animals. Given this is the only attack ever observed, it seems possible to me that there are a myriad of plausible one-off explanations. Pe…

You have to tie your research to the popular causes of the day. It would a bit far-fetched to tie it to gender and underrepresented minorities or online misinformation or covid, so the nearest possible "serious issue of our time" is climate change.

Are you sure? "the infant in the second encounter was almost entirely consumed by one adult chimpanzee female." I see a gender assumption here.. we have to check her Twitter to see if it's she/her or they/them..

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#72

Post by getlawgdon »

bonoboTP wrote: post #64
varenc wrote: post #13

> "Whether this behavior is due to competition for food or to the decline of the rainforest's productivity caused by climate change will now be investigated in more detail." Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? These are complex social animals. Given this is the only attack ever observed, it seems possible to me that there are a myriad of plausible one-off explanations. Pe…

You have to tie your research to the popular causes of the day. It would a bit far-fetched to tie it to gender and underrepresented minorities or online misinformation or covid, so the nearest possible "serious issue of our time" is climate change.

it's simply a hypothesis formed by experts. you're doing a disservice to yourself and the general purpose of acience by denigrating the concept this way.

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#73

Post by getlawgdon »

diognesofsinope wrote: post #17
varenc wrote: post #13

> "Whether this behavior is due to competition for food or to the decline of the rainforest's productivity caused by climate change will now be investigated in more detail." Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? These are complex social animals. Given this is the only attack ever observed, it seems possible to me that there are a myriad of plausible one-off explanations. Pe…

They've turned climate change into the new boogeyman, which is a shame since it's an important issue.

climate change is having wide and radically accelerating impacts. I'm certain the scientists have good insights into why it might be a factor in this event. much more concerning is the knee-jerk ignorance about climate change among lay audiences who are repeatedly putting their hands over their eyes and ears.

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#74

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #69
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? It's not a declaration, but a hypothesis that attempts to explain the observations according to prior knowledge. It "will now be investigated in more detail" to try and disprove it. That's bog standard scientific work. What's hasty is the easy dismissal of the opinion of experts on a subject most commenters here are probably unfamlia…

You don’t need any expertise at all to notice that there might be more than two possible explanations for this thing that has now been observed a total of one times.

You need expertise to know whether an explanation is likely or not with respect to prior knowledge.

Specifically, expertise depends on having the necessary prior knowledge to know whether a hypothesis is likely or not.

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#75

Post by woofie11 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #65
varenc wrote: post #13

> "Whether this behavior is due to competition for food or to the decline of the rainforest's productivity caused by climate change will now be investigated in more detail." Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? These are complex social animals. Given this is the only attack ever observed, it seems possible to me that there are a myriad of plausible one-off explanations. Pe…

>> Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? It's not a declaration, but a hypothesis that attempts to explain the observations according to prior knowledge. It "will now be investigated in more detail" to try and disprove it. That's bog standard scientific work. What's hasty is the easy dismissal of the opinion of experts on a subject most commenters here are probably unfamlia…

Science is a process. HN isn't anti-science.

The scientific establishment is a group of people in various organizational structures and alliances. I'm part of that establishment, and I can say that it lies, exaggerates, and has become increasingly untrustworthy in the past decade or two:

- The easiest way to get ahead in the scientific establishment is to fabricate politically-motivated results.

- Competition is intense, and the "hard" way is becoming impossible.

My general advice is to read source data -- even there with a large grain of salt -- but to definitely not trust "expert" conclusions. One of the easiest ways to have "impact" is to write newsworthy conclusions weakly supported by evidence. It's not technically academic fraud, and gives you the visibility you need for academic job offers.

Science isn't about authority or expertise. It's about evidence, critical thinking, and the scientific process. If you believe science is "opinion of experts," you're doing it wrong.

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#76

Post by woofie11 »

getlawgdon wrote: post #72
bonoboTP wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to tie your research to the popular causes of the day. It would a bit far-fetched to tie it to gender and underrepresented minorities or online misinformation or covid, so the nearest possible "serious issue of our time" is climate change.

it's simply a hypothesis formed by experts. you're doing a disservice to yourself and the general purpose of acience by denigrating the concept this way.

When the experts are all white liberal progressives competing for citations and news coverage, you're doing science a disservice by not having a critical read....

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#77

Post by woofie11 »

getlawgdon wrote: post #73
diognesofsinope wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've turned climate change into the new boogeyman, which is a shame since it's an important issue.

climate change is having wide and radically accelerating impacts. I'm certain the scientists have good insights into why it might be a factor in this event. much more concerning is the knee-jerk ignorance about climate change among lay audiences who are repeatedly putting their hands over their eyes and ears.

The two are connected. Scientists lying about climate change, especially in obvious contexts like this one, makes people see that scientists are not to be trusted.

It's the boy who cried wolf.

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#78

Post by z3c0 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #65
varenc wrote: post #13

> "Whether this behavior is due to competition for food or to the decline of the rainforest's productivity caused by climate change will now be investigated in more detail." Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? These are complex social animals. Given this is the only attack ever observed, it seems possible to me that there are a myriad of plausible one-off explanations. Pe…

>> Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? It's not a declaration, but a hypothesis that attempts to explain the observations according to prior knowledge. It "will now be investigated in more detail" to try and disprove it. That's bog standard scientific work. What's hasty is the easy dismissal of the opinion of experts on a subject most commenters here are probably unfamlia…

I've noticed a tendency towards pseudo-intellectual snark amidst the comments these days. It relies a lot on misused logic and eloquence to present itself as a knowledgeable opinion, but often never goes deeper than a semantic nitpick. This whole comment thread wouldn't exist if the author of the article had simply said "or something else."

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#79

Post by causi »

varenc wrote: post #13

> "Whether this behavior is due to competition for food or to the decline of the rainforest's productivity caused by climate change will now be investigated in more detail." Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? These are complex social animals. Given this is the only attack ever observed, it seems possible to me that there are a myriad of plausible one-off explanations. Pe…

Yes, given the headline I expected a coordinated attack that wiped out an entire group of gorillas, not a couple of skirmishes. Chimpanzees will attack humans, including eating human children. I don't see why small encounters that result in one or two deaths would be totally unexpected.

Re: First lethal attacks by chimpanzees on gorillas observed

#80

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

varenc wrote: post #13

> "Whether this behavior is due to competition for food or to the decline of the rainforest's productivity caused by climate change will now be investigated in more detail." Declaring the cause must be food competition or climate change seems a bit hasty? These are complex social animals. Given this is the only attack ever observed, it seems possible to me that there are a myriad of plausible one-off explanations. Pe…

> "caused by climate change"

Can be translated to "we know this is a good word to say to get research money, so we say it" in this context.

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