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A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

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Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#271

Post by skohan »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #28

What a fine mess we've created. - Popular experiences tend to be better experiences, so we all congregate to the same services - Homogenous user behavior leads to monopolistic situations, increasing outrage when anything goes wrong - Even if the government doesn't try to enforce moderation, the company attempts to self-moderate to maintain its image - The popularity of the service makes human moderation impossible, c…

> The popularity of the service makes human moderation impossible, creating a need for inevitably-flawed robots

That's true, but we might be able to improve things with a bit more human moderation.

For instance facebook is insanely profitable. They could probably increase their staffing for moderation by a pretty decent multiple and still be very profitable.

So the current state of moderation is not strictly a matter of need, it's also a matter of greed in terms of Facebook wanting to automate away jobs they could pay people to do. And given the state of online discourse, it's a decision we're all paying for.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#272

Post by mirkules »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #248
mirkules wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that you should mention War Games, because the only way to win this battle is not to play at all. Why are we so hell-bent on restricting speech and burning all these engineering hours trying to moderate something that cannot be moderated? Languages -- and people -- are "transformable" enough to avoid triggering "hate speech" (whatever that actually is, and whoever it is that determines it) algorithms. Let…

> Why are we so hell-bent on restricting speech and burning all these engineering hours trying to moderate something that cannot be moderated? Because if you allow humans to moderate then those humans start acquiring power. Which is something FAANG companies strive to prevent at all costs.

So instead put power in the hands of giant companies because regular people can’t be bothered to not get hot-and-bothered by reading something they don’t like? What makes these companies so morally pure?

The only way this can make sense - especially on HN - is if the people who advocate for company control of regular peoples’ lives work at these companies.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#273

Post by iamtedd »

guerrilla wrote: post #154
jcims wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're going to resurrect the transatlantic accent. I already have started add a hard 'ng' on 'going to' because my phone keeps abbreviating it to 'gonna'.

Yeah that's probably not goinv to work for India and the rest of the anglosphere.

> goinv to

Did you succumb to the exact same problem GP comment described?

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#274

Post by mleonhard »

hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

'starbot', from 'star chamber' [0].

"In modern times, legal or administrative bodies with strict, arbitrary rulings, no "due process" rights to those accused, and secretive proceedings are sometimes called "star chambers" as a metaphor."

Example uses:

"I got starbotted."

"Instagram's automod is a starbot."

"YouTube is too starbotty for your lectures. Better post with your school account."

"We're suing them because their starbot took down our site right after our superbowl ad ran."

"Play Store starbotted release 14 so we cut a dupe release 15. How much will it cost to push the ad campaign back 2 weeks?"

"We use Gmail and Google Docs but not Google Cloud because of the starbots."

"I tried to put Google ads on it, but their starbot rejected the site because it doesn't have enough pages. It's a single-page JavaScript utility." (This is my true story about https://www.cloudping.info )

"Our site gets a lot of traffic but we don't use Google ads because of the starbot risk. Nobody needs that trouble."

"The STAHP Bill (Starbot Tempering by Adding Humans to Process) just passed the Senate! Big Tech is finally getting de-Kafka'ed. About f**ing time."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#275

Post by d110af5ccf »

Clubber wrote: post #157
soheil wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this. I think it is shocking that so many people still use this. What about yelling bomb on an airplane?

I'm not sure that has been tested in court yet. If based on precedent, I would assume it would also be legal, but it would take a brave soul with a lot of money and free time to find out for certain.

SCOTUS could always overturn the existing precedent but if we assume they won't then it's legal right up until someone gets injured as a direct result. (Unless it somehow ends up running afoul of our ridiculous obscenity laws? I doubt it but you never know.)

Agreed that anyone who decides to demonstrate the above is definitely going to want plenty of money and free time at their disposal.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#276

Post by eingaeKaiy8ujie »

hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

Fascism.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#277

Post by Adrig »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #173
mc32 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or cooler heads prevail like at the Académie Française who recognize that sexual genders are completely unrelated to grammatical genders despite what activists try to say. So we may just get some people who push back and tell people that chess isn’t racist and it’s people who are injecting race where it doesn’t exist (such as here in chess) who are the problem.

> Or cooler heads prevail like at the Académie Française who recognize that sexual genders are completely unrelated to grammatical genders despite what activists try to say. But that's not really true. I always learned that, for example, ils (grammar-masculine they) should be used when referring to a group of people where any of the people are sexual-gender-masculine, but elles (grammar-feminine they) should be used…

You're both right. In grammatically gendered languages, various situations and context are present. Sometimes, people get worked up on a non-issue (like the latinx example other commented). Other rules have a more debatable impact, like the famous "in groups, the masculine prevail".

Interestingly, other approaches existed in the past like the rule of proximity where the gender of the closest element will dictate how the verb and adjectives will be written.

Languages are an ever-changing thing. I think it's healthy to propose and discuss grammatical changes if it makes sense, but everyone should be aware of what they are actually talking about.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#278

Post by d110af5ccf »

yoz-y wrote: post #263
Clubber wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yelling fire in a movie theater is perfectly legal and protected speech, even if false. It's only illegal if what is said is "likely to incite imminent lawless action," like a riot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_the... It's funny, this is often presented as a supporting example to limit citizens' free speech or other rights, typically paired with something along the lines of, "no freedom is…

Surely though if you cause panic and people get trampled you would face consequences no? You probably won’t get accused of hate speech but I hope it could go up to manslaughter.

I think it's safe to assume it could go up to outright murder if intent could be demonstrated and someone actually died as a direct result.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#279

Post by drran »

mleonhard wrote: post #238
hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

If a human made the same mistake, we would call them incompetent, careless, and negligent. - incompetent system - incompetent robot - incompesys - incompebot - inept system - inept robot - inepsys - ineptobot - inepobot - bunglebot - hambot - sloppybot - careless system - careless robot - carelessys - carelessbot - neglisys - negligent robot - neglibot I like 'neglibot'. "YouTube neglibotted my video." "This is my ne…

Slightly related new word: "copiloting" - copying by AI (copy + looting), e.g. GitHub copiloted opensource code.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#280

Post by drran »

nxpnsv wrote: post #264
mleonhard wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a human made the same mistake, we would call them incompetent, careless, and negligent. - incompetent system - incompetent robot - incompesys - incompebot - inept system - inept robot - inepsys - ineptobot - inepobot - bunglebot - hambot - sloppybot - careless system - careless robot - carelessys - carelessbot - neglisys - negligent robot - neglibot I like 'neglibot'. "YouTube neglibotted my video." "This is my ne…

Neglibot is nice. Dumbot works too...

IMHO, it's a case when a bug in an Artificial Intelligence system produces the Artificial Idiot, so "AIdiot", or "AdIot"
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