Why we need a space program • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we need a space program

#11

Post by juiceandjuice » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 9:42 PM UTC

Shenglong wrote: post #3

I believe it was the National Research Council Canada's director who said this (I could be mistaken, correct if necessary): "no amount of research into the oil lamp could have invented the light bulb"

I've never heard this before, but it is a good quote.

One of the problems that people don't understand about funding research for new science is that... it's new science. People don't always know exactly what will happen or come of it. It could be an expensive lesson on how not to do things, or it could be an exercise of the mundane, but even the spectacular failures can bring about paradigm shifting change.

More importantly, people come to believe that there is often only one goal of any mission and often dismiss the collateral benefits from attempting to solve a really hard problem, especially because they are often hard to truly quantify.

Re: Why we need a space program

#12

Post by Jach » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 9:43 PM UTC

zeteo wrote: post #6

TravisLS wrote: post #5

I've been trying to find this quotation from Neil Degrasse Tyson but haven't been successful. It's one of my favorite perspectives on NASA's budget (and specifically the the importance of lavish, public, manned missions). Paraphrased: Investing only $19 billion dollars a year is a no-brainer, considering the return is a generation of American kids interested in math and science.

>Investing only $19 billion dollars a year is a no-brainer, considering the return is a generation of American kids interested in math and science. This attitude has brought NASA to the lack of relevance we see today. Astronauts spending hours on video chat with middle-schoolers and the use of precious payload to put ant colonies into orbit are not serious ways to advance a space program. When NASA was about explorin…

Yeah, I think the goal of sparking science interest (and other things) would be better suited with mandated reruns of Star Trek: TNG in classrooms.

The thing with the ants is I only heard they were doing it, I never heard what they found out, and they never made it sound any fun. In Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! he talks about his own ant experiments in an enlightening way, with a useful application of getting them away from his food without using poisons. We need more of that.

Re: Why we need a space program

#13

Post by Ronkdar » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 9:50 PM UTC

> just look back at the discovery of North America and foundation of the greatest, vastest, richest, and most powerful nation the world has ever seen.

As an American, I find this sentence somewhat embarrassing.

> There would’ve been no Cold War, no Hollywood, and no tea bags.

And nothing of value would be lost.

It bothers me how he thinks that education funding would have to suffer for science. Why not just defense?

Re: Why we need a space program

#14

Post by pavel_lishin » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 9:58 PM UTC

mchusma wrote: post #8

TravisLS wrote: post #5

I've been trying to find this quotation from Neil Degrasse Tyson but haven't been successful. It's one of my favorite perspectives on NASA's budget (and specifically the the importance of lavish, public, manned missions). Paraphrased: Investing only $19 billion dollars a year is a no-brainer, considering the return is a generation of American kids interested in math and science.

Investing $19B a year is also a no-brainer if its other peoples money. If its that important, for profit and non-profits will fill any gap (probably producing the same or better results for less money).

Can't you use that logic to argue against any government spending?

Re: Why we need a space program

#15

Post by voteaccount1 » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 10:07 PM UTC

We have one, it's called Air Force Space Command Center.

Their budget was increased by 700 million in 2011 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/16/usa-airforce-space...)

Re: Why we need a space program

#16

Post by protomyth » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 10:16 PM UTC

I don't doubt the value of a space program, but I seriously doubt having NASA be the steward of such a program from this point on. I cannot help but think what would have happened if the Air Force's program had been funded and advanced past the X-15 stage. The forcing of Air Force concerns on the shuttle and NASA's own obsession with winning a race to the moon instead of establishing a permanent presence in space have done in our space program.

At this point, I just hope that multiple avenues are tried and regulatory agencies are made to get out of the way of private flight.

Re: Why we need a space program

#17

Post by watchandwait » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 10:20 PM UTC

The best way to fund science is to cut taxes on capital and to cut tax rates on the wealthy.

Re: Why we need a space program

#18

Post by dennisgorelik » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 10:41 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #14

mchusma wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investing $19B a year is also a no-brainer if its other peoples money. If its that important, for profit and non-profits will fill any gap (probably producing the same or better results for less money).

Can't you use that logic to argue against any government spending?

Not "any", but "most". Government is still a good choice for military, police, and funding building roads.

Letting government to spend money in most of other directions is a waste.

Space exploration is just one of many such wasteful examples.

Re: Why we need a space program

#19

Post by jjmaxwell4 » Thu, Jul 21, 2011, 11:08 PM UTC

NASA, like most government institutions, is wasteful and inefficient. The private sector can develop cheaper, safer, more efficient rockets, in a fraction of the time. Elon Musk, among others, has laid out ambitious goals; much more ambitious then the previous goals of NASA.

This is not the end of space exploration; on the contrary - things are going to start advancing at a much faster pace.

Re: Why we need a space program

#20

Post by Game_Ender » Fri, Jul 22, 2011, 12:04 AM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #18

pavel_lishin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you use that logic to argue against any government spending?

Not "any", but "most". Government is still a good choice for military, police, and funding building roads. Letting government to spend money in most of other directions is a waste. Space exploration is just one of many such wasteful examples.

> Space exploration is just one of many such wasteful examples.

Only if you place low value on the scientific returns. Science research is one thing the private sector does poorly, and it's something NASA does a lot of.

The other main area is human spaceflight which you could say is wasteful, but NASA did a lot of the high cost low return R&D for human spaceflight. Now private companies can go into the effort with timescales that can keep investors happy.