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Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

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Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#61

Post by hintymad »

livinginfear wrote: post #23

Likening modern 'woke' mob outrage on Twitter to Maoist China is the correct analogy. The purpose of being 'cancelled' is not any kind of real social justice. It's the enforcement of an ideological orthodoxy. Never apologise to the mob. Even a superficial understanding of game theory shows you that you have nothing to gain from the self-flagellation involved in a public apology. Remember, You'll never be forgiven. I'…

As I repeatedly said, the woke should really learn a bit history. Ignoring facts and promoting intolerance will eventually hurt even the woke. How many innocent people were beheaded by Robespierre? How many reg guards thought they were the reddest of the reddest yet were labeled "counter-revolutionary" or "Five Black Categories"? How many Russians or East Germans thought they were the most loyal to the revolution yet got executed? How many Cubans died of poverty and political persecution? How many Cambodians got killed in the name of cleansing the society? And we think those bloody histories all started with evil intention?

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#62

Post by spoonjim »

gameswithgo wrote: post #30
spoonjim wrote: post #24

What I’ve found is that because of the consequences these days, I can’t express any genuinely held opinions of mine in my social network, besides “The Chiefs will win the Super Bowl” and similar. And because of this, there is no tempering effect on these opinions. I find myself becoming more extremist because I don’t have the moderating effect of the crowd, because I no longer discuss “issues” with my “crowd.”

Have you stopped and maybe talked to someone you respect about these beliefs? When everyone else thinks you are being an asshole sometimes it is because you are. Ive certainly had to face that at times in my life.

No, as was the entire point of my comment, I cannot talk with anyone I respect about these beliefs. And I do see myself becoming more of an asshole, that is also the entire point of my comment. I think it must have gotten past you.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#63

Post by anigbrowl »

livinginfear wrote: post #23

Likening modern 'woke' mob outrage on Twitter to Maoist China is the correct analogy. The purpose of being 'cancelled' is not any kind of real social justice. It's the enforcement of an ideological orthodoxy. Never apologise to the mob. Even a superficial understanding of game theory shows you that you have nothing to gain from the self-flagellation involved in a public apology. Remember, You'll never be forgiven. I'…

modern 'woke' mob outrage

I can't help noticing that the media figures who are most upset about this alleged issue are the exact same people that spent years complaining there was a 'war on Christmas', setting fire to football jerseys, asserting he criminality of public figures with no evidence etc. etc.

Perhaps these physicians of society's ills should heal themselves first.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#64

Post by ponker »

eclipxe wrote: post #55
LegitShady wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately maybe the overwhelming social pressure doesn’t necessarily make an opinion true, just popular, or everyone else who agrees is just as scared to risk their careers etc as he is.

You are free to voice your opinion. Society is free to provide feedback to you on those opinions. If you have an opinion that a sufficient cohort of your peers in society feel is out of bounds for where society is headed or not compatible with the prevailing world view, society will provide corrective consequences/accountability. The system is working as it should.

Oh, like these corrective consequences/accountability?

https://www.peoplesworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/pjim...

"The system is working as it should."

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#65

Post by listless »

anigbrowl wrote: post #63
livinginfear wrote: post #23

Likening modern 'woke' mob outrage on Twitter to Maoist China is the correct analogy. The purpose of being 'cancelled' is not any kind of real social justice. It's the enforcement of an ideological orthodoxy. Never apologise to the mob. Even a superficial understanding of game theory shows you that you have nothing to gain from the self-flagellation involved in a public apology. Remember, You'll never be forgiven. I'…

modern 'woke' mob outrage I can't help noticing that the media figures who are most upset about this alleged issue are the exact same people that spent years complaining there was a 'war on Christmas', setting fire to football jerseys, asserting he criminality of public figures with no evidence etc. etc. Perhaps these physicians of society's ills should heal themselves first.

It’s unfortunate that “woke” has become a talking point because it’s a serious and actual problem. It’s eroding our ability to live together and it’s doing so at an alarming pace.

I hate that everything has to be hijacked for politics in the US.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#66

Post by anigbrowl »

LegitShady wrote: post #29
Werewolf255 wrote: post #26

I was done after he actively defended Andy Ngo. I was very much prepared to support this article, but it starts out with comparisons to Maoist China with the most self serving example of that regime's actions, and keep going further. J.K Rowling refuses to let the mob 'get her down'. Should Harvey Weinstein have bravely rallied against 'cancel culture'? If cancel culture is such a thing to be feared, why is Amazon Pr…

Please explain what Andy Ngo did that nobody should be able to have a different opinion of him without you dismissing him? JK Rowling is a billionaire who doesn’t need much in the way of connections anymore, but she is certainly constantly attacked and abused, and has lost many opportunities for standing up for what she believes in. That you don’t care about it and think that amazon still sells her books doesn’t mean…

Andy Ngo made his name with this piece of sensationalist propaganda: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-visit-to-islamic-england-1535...

He's a serial fabulist, raising hundreds of thousands after getting punched in the nose and claiming to have a brain bleed, but jetting cross-country to Boston a day later.

He's also a defendant in civil litigation for his apparent participation in a planned (rather than spontaneous) assault in Portland that led to criminal charges against right-wing agitators up there: https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/116496174509978828...

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#67

Post by listless »

Werewolf255 wrote: post #50
LegitShady wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain what Andy Ngo did that nobody should be able to have a different opinion of him without you dismissing him? JK Rowling is a billionaire who doesn’t need much in the way of connections anymore, but she is certainly constantly attacked and abused, and has lost many opportunities for standing up for what she believes in. That you don’t care about it and think that amazon still sells her books doesn’t mean…

Anybody is free to have an opinion on Andy Ngo but calling him, with complete credulity, someone who "became noteworthy by documenting the excesses of the far left" without mentioning his vocal and widespread reporting in favor of white supremacy, with the Proud Boys being the most prominent example, doesn't make me think the author is being genuine. If the article had a more nuanced view as opposed to pushing a poin…

I didn’t know about these accusations against him. Can you provide citations?

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#68

Post by orionblastar »

prawn wrote: post #42
orionblastar wrote: post #10

Not much you can do if the mob gets you canceled and fired from your job. Might as well stand up to the bullies in the mob. Yes a mob is full of bullies who attack someone for being different in some way or have a different opinion. I already got downvoted twice with this message.

A downvote can be to express disagreement - it might be that people think regardless of firing, you should often just ignore the so-called mob. Griping about downvotes will likely attract more.

I use verbal self defense when attacked. Part of my martial arts training.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#69

Post by prawn »

orionblastar wrote: post #68
prawn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A downvote can be to express disagreement - it might be that people think regardless of firing, you should often just ignore the so-called mob. Griping about downvotes will likely attract more.

I use verbal self defense when attacked. Part of my martial arts training.

I figure that the less front you present to an attacker, the less they have to attack. In an argument, say less. In a mob situation, minimise your apology.

Write at length and you're almost guaranteed to present something someone will take issue with. Even if it's not a danger to you physically or to your career, it's likely a waste of your time!

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#70

Post by anigbrowl »

listless wrote: post #65
anigbrowl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

modern 'woke' mob outrage I can't help noticing that the media figures who are most upset about this alleged issue are the exact same people that spent years complaining there was a 'war on Christmas', setting fire to football jerseys, asserting he criminality of public figures with no evidence etc. etc. Perhaps these physicians of society's ills should heal themselves first.

It’s unfortunate that “woke” has become a talking point because it’s a serious and actual problem. It’s eroding our ability to live together and it’s doing so at an alarming pace. I hate that everything has to be hijacked for politics in the US.

This is a few years old now, but demonstrates (most clearly in figure 3) that the process of political meiosis began in the mid-1980s. Political scientists are undecided on the driving factors, but the accessibility of cable TV and the internet were probably accelerating factors since they facilitated the emergence of media and social silos.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

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