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Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

persuasion.community

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Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#31

Post by iamnotwhoiam »

aerosmile wrote: post #14

Winston Marshall had to leave Mumford and Sons to be able to stand up for himself. For anyone willing to throw away a life's worth of investment into their career in order to speak their mind, that's a good piece of advice. For everyone else, apologize. Or better yet, avoid getting into hot water. I have found HN to be a great barometer for what's "acceptable" and what isn't. Recently, I learned a valuable lesson - I…

It really looks to me like someone disagreed with you and you took it very personally.

You jumped to claiming “offense” first.

I think you should reread your thread in a few days when you’ve cooled off.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#33

Post by panny »

>Today, the mob acts primarily through social media, meaning that the pile-on can come for anybody, at any time, with little to no warning.

It should be stated that this mob is typically comprised of bot accounts. It's not even a real mob. It's just some government or group who wants to peer pressure you with internet good boy points.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#34

Post by marcusverus »

535188B17C93743 wrote: post #7
MattGaiser wrote: post #5

Or you can issue an apology and change nothing. Companies long ago figured out this to be the optimal approach.

Yep, it seems the options are: - Issue apology and piss off those who agreed with you and those who didn't won't acknowledge the apology - Don't issue apology and those who agree still agree and those who don't will forget about it/get over it.

You’ve left out the part where apologizing (i.e. appeasing) the mob rewards them with a “win”, reinforcing their behavior.

As a father of a small child, I’ve learned that it’s important not to confer extra attention for acting out, otherwise I am effectively encouraging that behavior. I’ve heard this described as “don’t water weeds”.

The modern mob is nothing more than the collective Id of so many sad, child-like human beings. Don't give in just because it’s easier in the short term. Don’t water the weeds.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#35

Post by LegitShady »

MattGaiser wrote: post #5

Or you can issue an apology and change nothing. Companies long ago figured out this to be the optimal approach.

That works for a company but it won’t work for a person. For a person an apology becomes a tacit admission of guilt and license for further harassment. See Chris Avelone, etc.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#36

Post by [deleted] »

livinginfear wrote: post #23

Likening modern 'woke' mob outrage on Twitter to Maoist China is the correct analogy. The purpose of being 'cancelled' is not any kind of real social justice. It's the enforcement of an ideological orthodoxy. Never apologise to the mob. Even a superficial understanding of game theory shows you that you have nothing to gain from the self-flagellation involved in a public apology. Remember, You'll never be forgiven. I'…

[deleted]

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#37

Post by shadowgovt »

It really depends on what your goals are the right way to engage if you get mobbed.

I operate on two rules of thumb in this space:

1) you have absolutely zero control over the mob. The mob is a force of nature. They will decide you are the most important thing for several hours, and then they will change their minds. Or they won't. Point is, you can't control it.

2) The most important thing is to not be surprised by a mob about yourself. If you're going to get mobbed, may it at least happen because of something you intended to communicate, not because of a flippant thought shouted into the global-cast megaphone that is Twitter.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#38

Post by Barrin92 »

Werewolf255 wrote: post #26

I was done after he actively defended Andy Ngo. I was very much prepared to support this article, but it starts out with comparisons to Maoist China with the most self serving example of that regime's actions, and keep going further. J.K Rowling refuses to let the mob 'get her down'. Should Harvey Weinstein have bravely rallied against 'cancel culture'? If cancel culture is such a thing to be feared, why is Amazon Pr…

It's a very typical kind of piece that starts with a self-evident, humble truism, i.e. "If you don't have anything to apologize for don't, if you do, apologize", and a Hamilton example to kind of obfuscate the tone and then the actual message comes when you bring in Andy Ngo and the 'far-left'.

Even the beginning is silly. Bringing up the cultural revolution followed by "obviously I don't intend to compare anything to the cultural revolution". Okay, then what's the point? It's how all of these articles work.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#39

Post by LegitShady »

gameswithgo wrote: post #30
spoonjim wrote: post #24

What I’ve found is that because of the consequences these days, I can’t express any genuinely held opinions of mine in my social network, besides “The Chiefs will win the Super Bowl” and similar. And because of this, there is no tempering effect on these opinions. I find myself becoming more extremist because I don’t have the moderating effect of the crowd, because I no longer discuss “issues” with my “crowd.”

Have you stopped and maybe talked to someone you respect about these beliefs? When everyone else thinks you are being an asshole sometimes it is because you are. Ive certainly had to face that at times in my life.

Alternately maybe the overwhelming social pressure doesn’t necessarily make an opinion true, just popular, or everyone else who agrees is just as scared to risk their careers etc as he is.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#40

Post by megaman821 »

Werewolf255 wrote: post #28
jjmorrison wrote: post #17

He's right. Mobs don't do good in the world, no matter if you agree with their position or not. "Hate can't fight hate, only love can do that" Somehow we all think we're better at this than MLK was. No matter your beliefs, shame and hate won't help teach a different way.

Tell me more about how Dr. King wouldn't have used collective action as a catalyst for change.

Are you trying to compare MLK's rousing and elegant speeches with the nastiness that gets sent over Twitter by these mobs?
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