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Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

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Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#21

Post by amznthrwaway »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #9

Isn’t this just also participating in mobbing behavior, except this time putting pressure and calling out individuals for the transgression of excessive apology?

The purpose of the article is to praise members of the violent right, like Ngo, a man who literally helped plan violent attacks; and to shame people who try to be nice.

The idea is to encourage other extremists to become more extreme, and to encourage more radical behavior from the radical right.

This is far-right propaganda, nothing more.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#22

Post by nicklecompte »

I don’t want to step into this particular minefield (nor should any progressive, really) but I thought this tiny part of the argument was unusually bad reasoning:

> To give such a forceful statement on the nation’s most-watched late-night talk show, it’s fair to assume that Moreno must have understood the “colorism” debate and given her position serious consideration.

Who honestly believes that people on Steven Colbert are giving serious thought and consideration to their responses in the interview? It actually seems more likely that she went on Colbert to promote her show and tell some jokes, got blindsided with a controversial question and gave an answer she regretted (the statement was not at all “forceful” and seemed much more about her personal affection for Lin-Miranda than any serious political motivation). In any case it is not “fair to assume” that interviewees on late night shows are especially prepared - Steven Colbert is not Meet the Press!

Stuff like this is why the newsletter trend is kinda worrying: smart people need editors, otherwise they will write transparently stupid things.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#23

Post by livinginfear »

Likening modern 'woke' mob outrage on Twitter to Maoist China is the correct analogy. The purpose of being 'cancelled' is not any kind of real social justice. It's the enforcement of an ideological orthodoxy.

Never apologise to the mob. Even a superficial understanding of game theory shows you that you have nothing to gain from the self-flagellation involved in a public apology. Remember, You'll never be forgiven. I've never seen an example where the mob has pursued entirely altruistic goals. It's the witch-trials of the 21st century. Nothing more.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#24

Post by spoonjim »

What I’ve found is that because of the consequences these days, I can’t express any genuinely held opinions of mine in my social network, besides “The Chiefs will win the Super Bowl” and similar. And because of this, there is no tempering effect on these opinions. I find myself becoming more extremist because I don’t have the moderating effect of the crowd, because I no longer discuss “issues” with my “crowd.”

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#25

Post by amznthrwaway »

aerosmile wrote: post #14

Winston Marshall had to leave Mumford and Sons to be able to stand up for himself. For anyone willing to throw away a life's worth of investment into their career in order to speak their mind, that's a good piece of advice. For everyone else, apologize. Or better yet, avoid getting into hot water. I have found HN to be a great barometer for what's "acceptable" and what isn't. Recently, I learned a valuable lesson - I…

[dead]

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#26

Post by Werewolf255 »

I was done after he actively defended Andy Ngo. I was very much prepared to support this article, but it starts out with comparisons to Maoist China with the most self serving example of that regime's actions, and keep going further. J.K Rowling refuses to let the mob 'get her down'. Should Harvey Weinstein have bravely rallied against 'cancel culture'? If cancel culture is such a thing to be feared, why is Amazon Prime still working?

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#27

Post by gameswithgo »

jjmorrison wrote: post #17

He's right. Mobs don't do good in the world, no matter if you agree with their position or not. "Hate can't fight hate, only love can do that" Somehow we all think we're better at this than MLK was. No matter your beliefs, shame and hate won't help teach a different way.

This idea is great when you are dealing with people who are earnest but misled, for instance Daryl Davis who has had great success getting people to leave the KKK.

But many actors are not misled, just actively trying to do harm either for the sake of it, or for personal gain or because they are insane. No amount of love is going to get through to people like that. Think Hitler, Trump, Pol Pot, Putin, Marjorie Green, etc

Sometimes you have to fight back

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#28

Post by Werewolf255 »

jjmorrison wrote: post #17

He's right. Mobs don't do good in the world, no matter if you agree with their position or not. "Hate can't fight hate, only love can do that" Somehow we all think we're better at this than MLK was. No matter your beliefs, shame and hate won't help teach a different way.

Tell me more about how Dr. King wouldn't have used collective action as a catalyst for change.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#29

Post by LegitShady »

Werewolf255 wrote: post #26

I was done after he actively defended Andy Ngo. I was very much prepared to support this article, but it starts out with comparisons to Maoist China with the most self serving example of that regime's actions, and keep going further. J.K Rowling refuses to let the mob 'get her down'. Should Harvey Weinstein have bravely rallied against 'cancel culture'? If cancel culture is such a thing to be feared, why is Amazon Pr…

Please explain what Andy Ngo did that nobody should be able to have a different opinion of him without you dismissing him?

JK Rowling is a billionaire who doesn’t need much in the way of connections anymore, but she is certainly constantly attacked and abused, and has lost many opportunities for standing up for what she believes in. That you don’t care about it and think that amazon still sells her books doesn’t mean a woke mob didn’t attempt to cancel her doesn’t make that true, just means you aren’t paying attention.

Comparing either of those two to Harvey Weinstein is the real dishonesty done here.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#30

Post by gameswithgo »

spoonjim wrote: post #24

What I’ve found is that because of the consequences these days, I can’t express any genuinely held opinions of mine in my social network, besides “The Chiefs will win the Super Bowl” and similar. And because of this, there is no tempering effect on these opinions. I find myself becoming more extremist because I don’t have the moderating effect of the crowd, because I no longer discuss “issues” with my “crowd.”

Have you stopped and maybe talked to someone you respect about these beliefs? When everyone else thinks you are being an asshole sometimes it is because you are. Ive certainly had to face that at times in my life.
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