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Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

persuasion.community

11–20 of 143 posts

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#11

The mob isn't coming for you. If it is, your reaction should maybe depend on what the mob is criticising. The mob is people. They aren't always terribly smart, neither alone or in groups. But it does happen that individuals make mistakes, and that people notice them. What is this? "Self Help for Dummies, Who May or May Not Also Be Racists"?

The shtick that cancel culture and "the twitter mob" don't even exist is falling apart, because insisting there is no war in ba sing se only works until a critical mass sees the evidence for themselves. Your argument is ridiculous and I'm sure you realize this.

Again, I'm sure you know this already, but most people who are cancelled are innocent of any wrongdoing, and very few involve racism. Did you read the article? No one was accused of racism, yet the mob came for them.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#13
At times an apology is appropriate and necessary.

However, when it is not, simply apologizing does nothing for the conversation or furthering any cause. It simply ferments continued abuses. If 'the mob' feels they can apply enough pressure to get you to bend, they will continue.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#14
Winston Marshall had to leave Mumford and Sons to be able to stand up for himself. For anyone willing to throw away a life's worth of investment into their career in order to speak their mind, that's a good piece of advice. For everyone else, apologize.

Or better yet, avoid getting into hot water. I have found HN to be a great barometer for what's "acceptable" and what isn't. Recently, I learned a valuable lesson - I shared an accurate statement about FB's targeting precision, which I am pretty sure nobody would have objected to. But as soon as I tied it to their financial results, it instantly offended one person and others felt they had to jump in as well.

Lesson learned: the fact that Facebook is printing money is such a thorn in the eye for many people that the minute it's brought up in an unrelated context, it will 1) derail the conversation, 2) get people to disagree with what would have otherwise been a straight forward argument, and 3) get people to vilify you.

So now that we know about this thorn, we can not just avoid it in future conversations, but we can also leverage it to our benefit. For instance, all you have to say is: "Man, I wish we could somehow get Facebook banned. Here's how effective their targeting is..." - and voila, everyone is agreeing with you!

Long story short - don't piss against the wind.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#15
There are two kinds of mass media public apologies. There are the Jeffrey Toobin type apologies where the person apologizing has the support of the institutions and amenable authorities and the apology is a fig leaf for said powerful friends. And there is the other kind where it's some chump getting swarmed on social media and hearing from HR thinking the mob will lay off because he just admitted that he is in fact a witch.

Obviously private apologies between friends and family are an entirely different thing.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#16

The mob isn't coming for you. If it is, your reaction should maybe depend on what the mob is criticising. The mob is people. They aren't always terribly smart, neither alone or in groups. But it does happen that individuals make mistakes, and that people notice them. What is this? "Self Help for Dummies, Who May or May Not Also Be Racists"?

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Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#17
He's right. Mobs don't do good in the world, no matter if you agree with their position or not.

"Hate can't fight hate, only love can do that"

Somehow we all think we're better at this than MLK was. No matter your beliefs, shame and hate won't help teach a different way.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#18
I’m not sure what to make of the back and forth here. Colorism overlooked by older generations, and someone looking back on not supporting unionization and having a value shift, juxtaposed with Maoist shaming to support someone who wrote a book saying antifa (a concept, not a group) is destroying democracy and a musician supporting that person stepping back from the spotlight seems a bit jarring. At first this seems like libertarian pandering, but my most cynical inner voice is saying the writer is a troll trying to get people who hold farther right ideals to get themselves canceled. And I guess the trickle down effect from that milkshake that hit the writer in the face is going to make me buy the book, so maybe that’s the point.

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#19

Winston Marshall had to leave Mumford and Sons to be able to stand up for himself. For anyone willing to throw away a life's worth of investment into their career in order to speak their mind, that's a good piece of advice. For everyone else, apologize. Or better yet, avoid getting into hot water. I have found HN to be a great barometer for what's "acceptable" and what isn't. Recently, I learned a valuable lesson - I…

[deleted]

Re: Don’t Apologize: If the mob comes for you, stand up for yourself

#20
Apologies are pointless. Some dude will say "He's apologizing because he got caught not because he's sorry" and you can't prove otherwise because that's literally unfalsifiable. Then the mob will just jump on that bit. Don't waste your time.
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