Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres • Hacker News Board

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#541

Post by shkkmo » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:27 PM UTC

Decker87 wrote: post #526

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Earth is going to die one day. The Sun will die too. There is no guarantee that intelligent life will survive on this single planet, even if we do a perfect job of taking care of it. Catastrophic, species-killing events can happen at any time. If we wish to ensure the long-term survival of the only intelligent life in the universe that we know about (as well as the survival of all the other creatures on Earth, wh…

I respect your position but I completely disagree. We are so far off from needing to worry about the sun dying out. We should be focused on stopping and reversing climate change.

There is an argument that advancing orbital launch capacity can help with the scientific research and geo-engineering needed to control global warming. There is even an argument that the technology needed to make living on Mars feasible could be beneficial in combating the adverse effecta of global warming and the resulting ecological collapses.

I don't think that working to towards colonization of mars and working to counteract global warming are antithetical or even orthogonal.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#542

Post by edmundsauto » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:33 PM UTC

arrosenberg wrote: post #315

edmundsauto wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I differentiate distributed from re-distributed. He may have a higher percentage of available wealth, but it’s not like other people have lost their money.

That doesn't make sense though, each dollar doesn't exist in a value vacuum, so you can't ignore the impact of uneven distribution. If Jeffery wants to own the entire town, he can (and then he can get loans against his property to continue funding operations). At that point it seems pretty inane to argue that re-distribution hasn't happened - money is a proxy for economic power, and when you give one person a larger…

I actually decided to delete my comment here. I've had a challenging day and I don't feel like making it worse by continuing this conversation. Have a nice day.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#543

Post by aylmao » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #259

sofixa wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's how we get to the moon and Mars and how we survive as a species. It's what's next. I find it extremely weird that people are banking on a (almost literal) moonshot for the survival of our species. Isn't trying to stop/lessen the damage we're doing to the place we currently live and which can sustain us better and more optimistic proposition than hoping a metric shitton of things go perfectly after probably mil…

The Earth is going to die one day. The Sun will die too. There is no guarantee that intelligent life will survive on this single planet, even if we do a perfect job of taking care of it. Catastrophic, species-killing events can happen at any time. If we wish to ensure the long-term survival of the only intelligent life in the universe that we know about (as well as the survival of all the other creatures on Earth, wh…

> The Earth is going to die one day. [...] If we wish to ensure the long-term survival of the only intelligent life in the universe that we know about (as well as the survival of all the other creatures on Earth, who don't have our knowledge) then adapting, exploring, and surviving in space is what we must do.

I think that's the gripe. We all wish to ensure our long-term survival, but worrying about becoming a multi-planetary species today —as we're polluting the earth at an unsustainable rate, as we're still fighting wars, as we loose millions a year to disease and as the possibility of higher education remains a privilege for few— sounds like making the wrong investment.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#544

Post by shkkmo » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:35 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #273

sofixa wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's how we get to the moon and Mars and how we survive as a species. It's what's next. I find it extremely weird that people are banking on a (almost literal) moonshot for the survival of our species. Isn't trying to stop/lessen the damage we're doing to the place we currently live and which can sustain us better and more optimistic proposition than hoping a metric shitton of things go perfectly after probably mil…

You are assuming we know all the problems we might encounter. We don't, in fact there are many ways the human species can go extinct that are not fault of our own. The best we can do is to create general knowledge which allow us to better combat future challenges. Climate change is a potential problem but not existential and not something we can't handle with our current technological understanding. The idea that hum…

> Climate change is a potential problem but not existential

While I agree climate change is not "existential" (at least not for humans, possibly for many other species and societal structures) it is definitely more than a "potential" problem.

> and not something we can't handle with our current technological understanding.

I think the degree to which our current technology is able to "handle" the amount of warming we have locked in is highly debatable and depends entirely on what you consider acceptable costs/loses in handling it.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#545

Post by sidlls » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:38 PM UTC

Zelphyr wrote: post #9

All the critics lobbing cynicism against Bezos, Branson, and Musk saying, in essence, that their money is better spent here at home reminds me of a wonderful scene from The West Wing when one character asks why we have to go to Mars: "'Cause it's next. For we came out of the cave, and we looked over the hill, and we saw fire. And we crossed the ocean, and we pioneered the West, and we took to the sky. The history of…

No offense, but this is a tad outlandish and completely ignores the people who are actually working to get us there. It's not Bezos or Musk, though the latter exploits his PR acumen incredibly to make it seem like he invented modern space travel himself.

We won't get to Mars with a bunch of private-money capitalists competing. Much like in the 50s and 60s, it's going to take a concerted effort of government sponsored and driven research.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#546

Post by sanderjd » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:44 PM UTC

superfrank wrote: post #271

hemloc_io wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really fair to lump Bezos, Branson, and Musk into the same bucket. Musk, for all his flaws, started an actual rocket company with new and frankly insane tech. Bezos and especially Branson's ventures feel much more like personal vanity projects than something that will actually push space exploration. I mean Blue Origin has been running for 20 years and the best we have from them is flights that wer…

> Bezos and especially Branson's ventures feel much more like personal vanity projects than something that will actually push space exploration. I'm not sure why people feel this need to draw this weird line in the sand and say that SpaceX is okay because Musk built a business, but Blue Origin and Virgin are bad because... reasons? Technology advances for all sorts of reasons. Lamborghinis exist because a farmer was…

It isn't "because... reasons", it's because of specific reasons. Those reasons are actually right there in your comment: Blue Origin and Virgin don't strike me at all as "advancing space exploration". Like the comment you replied to said: we already knew how to do the stuff they've done, a long time ago. Spacex on the other hand is progressing the state of the art.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#547

Post by cwkoss » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:45 PM UTC

superfrank wrote: post #284

geocrasher wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Bezos and Branson stopped right now, they've still proven that it's possible for a company other than SpaceX to put a man in orbit and dumped billions of dollars back into the economy. False. I hate to be "that guy" but neither Bezos or Branson made it to orbit. Those were sub-orbital flights with parabolic trajectories. To use your analogies: If Tesla were the Ferrari, then Virgin Galactic and friends would be…

You're correct, but that doesn't really change the point I was trying to make Since you've edited your post, I'll respond to the rest. > But they're also just carnival rides for Billionaires, and that's what gets on peoples nerves. If Bezos or Branson had sent someone else up in their place, does that really change anything? Sure, it's expensive and only the super wealthy can afford to go into space right now, but th…

Neither Bezos or Branson achieved orbital velocities, which is the minimum bar for doing useful things related to space. It really is just a carnival ride - it's not about who's in it, its that they didn't actually achieve anything: what they built has no utility except as a dick-measuring contest.

Orbit is a little bit of upwards velocity and a whole lot of sideways velocity. They only did the much simpler former.

These sub orbital flights are just barely over the line into what can be called space travel, and do nothing useful except letting them brag that 'they went to space'

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#548

Post by dumbfoundded » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:46 PM UTC

robryan wrote: post #489

dumbfoundded wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments actually make the risky investments. From infrastructure to nukes to the internet to space travel to particle colliders to fusion. The governments that have made these investments are the ones that do the best job of representing the interests of millions of people. If you take the limit of concentrating wealth, you get a dictatorship. They don't seem to do much. It's hard to believe in democracy and insa…

I think it makes sense in a limited way. Government can do a lot but struggles to make big bets and see them through in the way a single minded billionaire could. Maybe government could solve this is providing some bigger chunks of no strings attached funding under the direction of a single person. NASA has been beholden to the latest administration’s whims and inconsistent budget allocation for decades.

No billionaire's focus can even come close to matching a nation at war. In less than 25 years, governments went from realizing nukes were possible to creating an arsenal large enough to destroy civilization (1).

I think the great challenge of our generation will be a way to come together with such single minded focus to tackle problems without trying to exterminate each other.

(1) https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/atomic-bomb-hist...

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#549

Post by aylmao » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

edmundsauto wrote: post #275

arrosenberg wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is wealth being redistributed, or are the Bezos’ simply slurping up the new money that have been so abundant? How do you differentiate these? If you have 100 dollars, distributed evenly among 10 people, and then you print 100 more and give them all to Jeffery, then you have redistributed the wealth even though you only printed new money. He went from 10% of the power to 55%.

I differentiate distributed from re-distributed. He may have a higher percentage of available wealth, but it’s not like other people have lost their money.

Inflation would say otherwise. Everyone had the same purchasing power before, and so could buy roughly the same things. Now, Jeffery has more purchasing power than anyone else, which means they can outbid and can keep the better things for himself.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#550

Post by dmz73 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

Zelphyr wrote: post #9

All the critics lobbing cynicism against Bezos, Branson, and Musk saying, in essence, that their money is better spent here at home reminds me of a wonderful scene from The West Wing when one character asks why we have to go to Mars: "'Cause it's next. For we came out of the cave, and we looked over the hill, and we saw fire. And we crossed the ocean, and we pioneered the West, and we took to the sky. The history of…

The problem is not that billionaires are spending their money on space exploration. The problem is that we have many billionaires and millions (billions world wide) are barely surviving. Do you want our species to expand to other planets with this kind of society? We will all end up being slaves if this keeps going on, not in 19th century sense but modern kind - forced to work endless hours just to scrape enough money for food. Elysium style society but without happy ending.