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The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

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Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#61

Post by agumonkey »

okareaman wrote: post #42

As someone who has struggle with suicidal ideation his entire life, whenever the subject comes up I try to educate people by quoting author David Foster Wallace (who commited suicide) with the best explanation: “The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not becaus…

Also some levels of pain completely fuzz the upper layers of the brain in ways that are hard to describe.

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#62

Post by agumonkey »

pmoriarty wrote: post #34

In "Why do people die by suicide" , Dr Paul Thomlinson goes over the research on predicting suicide.[1] First, he talks about a well supported model called Joiner's Model, based on research which shows that people who are most likely to commit suicide have all three of these factors: - Thwarted belongingness ("I am alone") - Perceived burdensomeness ("I am a burden") - Ability to commit suicide ("I am not afraid to d…

interesting categorization, very much so, I find there's a duality in the lonely/self-hate group. So many people who feel like that are utterly normal, they just can't connect other realities than their own judgement.

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#63

Post by jsmith45 »

giantg2 wrote: post #57
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps their regret is a significant contributor to their survival though.

Or perhaps they are only saying they regret it so they aren't thrown into a mental hospital. I wonder if there was a follow up on longterm survival.

Of 515 people prevented by police from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge between 1937 and 1971, by the end of the 70s only 6% of them had committed suicide by other means.

Source: "Where are they now?" by Richard Seiden

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#64

Post by s1artibartfast »

aeturnum wrote: post #58
s1artibartfast wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One major challenge is that careful premeditation does not necessarily mean suicide is rational. There is a big crossover between people who consider suicide and people with disorders negatively impacting their cognition and decision making.

> people with disorders negatively impacting their cognition and decision making. I think we should be really careful about how we think & talk about this. There are a few situations (like psychotic breaks) where people fully believe delusions that, in a short time, they will reject. We can cleanly call those experiences "irrational." On the other hand, people who experience long term depression literally experience…

I totally agree that it is a very tricky subject, especially regarding depression. Having some experience with it myself, I would argue that irrational pessimism is a major feature of depression. For example, people cannot accurately asses actions and activities that would in fact make them happier if they were to follow through.

In this way, I think they are clearly distinct from those with terminal illness or chronic pain.

I agree that people should have the right to choose death, independent of the rationality of their decision. Ultimately, people are the owner of their body and steward of their life, even if they are imperfect and irrational ones. Taking autonomy away turns individuals and their body into the property of someone else.

I think there is some room for temporary holds and crisis management, but all such activities should be finite in duration.

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#65

Post by agumonkey »

pmoriarty wrote: post #52
underseacables wrote: post #2

Robert Lowell once said that if humans had access to a button that would kill us instantly and painlessly, we would all press it sooner or later. I think this explains suicide better: For most, it’s an irrational act done in the spur of the moment. What I think is more interesting is when suicide is done as a rational act with planning, and consideration for others.

"Robert Lowell once said that if humans had access to a button that would kill us instantly and painlessly, we would all press it sooner or later." They'd push it even sooner if no one they cared about depended on them. A lot of people stay alive simply out of a sense of responsibility towards others.

I think the storage space for our notion of 'others' or 'loved ones' is one extremely potent part of our minds. I am who I love somehow, my brain goes against destroying that bond.

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#66

Post by FinanceAnon »

It's impossible to measure, but I wonder what % of suicides happens because of the culture that we live in. A lot of times when you read about someone commiting suicide it's blamed on that individual or their mental health - but is that really the root issue? How many of the suicides wouldn't happen if society was set up in a different way?

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#67

Post by leksak »

At points in my journey I've thought that the one genuinely good thing that I could maybe end up doing for others is to end my own life so that the way mental health patients are treated receives another impetus for change so that others can get the help I didn't get while desperately reaching for it.

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#68

Post by morpheos137 »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #25
morpheos137 wrote: post #9

Quoted post unavailable.

The point of suicide is to end suffering, not commit to a happy predictable retirement. If you ever have a moment in your life that causes you to contemplate it, you'll understand. Otherwise, I personally don't believe people like you should be making decisions for those people who do. You have no understanding of what it feels like to consider that as actually being a rational thought.

Nothing about life is rational.

I believe I "contemplate" suicide frequently but I have no inclination to do it because what good would it do me? Suicide is self-murder no matter how we sugar coat it. If we reach a point as a society where murdering ones self is condoned why wouldn't that make murder of others less severe? If life is not sacred then it seems to me that murder becomes more like a property crime.

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#69

Post by motohagiography »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #18
spywaregorilla wrote: post #3

I would tend to assume suicide is fairly predictable with high sensitivity and the data many corporations have from surveillance of customers tbh.

Let's just say I get really concerned about my fairly stable, committed household when I get therapy and dating app ads...

Given ads are necessarily both targeted and predatory, and a not a few of them are planted as part of sophisticated political campaigns and operations, someone in your house probably just triggered a link on their trapline.

Ads for therapy are to stoke fears of people they may be mentally ill, and ads for dating sites are to make people feel isolated. They're just used as priming for selling you an additional something else to relieve the feelings the primers created.

If I wanted you to look at my ad, I'd present something you would look away from, and have my product ad right there waiting for where you will likely look to. Look at the difference between ads in the margin of pages, vs. those inline to the content.

Re: The undiscovered country: Can suicide be predicted?

#70

Post by morpheos137 »

98Windows wrote: post #14
morpheos137 wrote: post #9

Quoted post unavailable.

You have been blessed with a happy life then, feel glad you don't understand the appeal of suicide

actually I have a pretty bad life right now. I just chose not to feel too bad about it and I know it can and will change.
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