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The Colorado River is shrinking

sciencemag.org

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Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#91

Post by eldaisfish »

Diederich wrote: post #68
avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

"Coastal areas will be flooded due to increasing sea levels." I don't mean to nit pick, but clarification in this context is appropriate I think. For example, I live about 500 meters from the Pacific ocean, but my house is in absolutely no danger of flooding, because we're about 100 meters above sea level, and we are at the top of a rise. There's nothing 'above' us, so no rain flooding is possible. Many costal areas…

You are indeed nitpicking and presenting a cherry picked scenario. You are the outlier. The majority of coastal settlements are on flat land or at the mouths of rivers which - surprise - are also flat and prone to flooding. There is a good reason that rocky coasts like those in Scotland or Gaspe in Quebec have such small populations.

It is possible to live safely near the ocean, provided your government has the foresight to build storm barriers. At the moment, one of the only places where this is true is the Netherlands.

Also, there's a more plausible reason for river basin floods - melting glaciers and upstream floods.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#92

Post by mastax »

selectodude wrote: post #50
01100011 wrote: post #43

The choice is pretty clear to me. We need a national water grid. Desalinization is great and a piece of the puzzle, but we need a way to distribute water across the country. It could also be leveraged as an energy storage device if we continue to add more reservoirs at various elevations. It's not going to be cheap or easy, but we'd be stupid not to start on it now. The climate changes, and we need to plan for it. Pl…

No. The Great Lakes are not leaving the Great Lakes area. Ever.

I was just up around Lake Superior and there were lots of signs protesting someone wanting to sell bottled water from a well on their land near Lake Superior. I doubt that an individual's bespoke bottled water company could ever make a significant difference to anything, and the campaign's energy could be better spent on numerous other issues affecting the lake. However, it illustrates how protective people are of the lake water which I think is a good thing.

Our governments already spend absurd amounts of money subsidizing the property values of people who live in flood plains, in deserts, etc. It will be painful but the longer we spend trying to bandage the issue the harder it will be once it reaches the breaking point.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#94

Post by kevinmgranger »

briga wrote: post #83
dleslie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawns and golf courses are a small fraction of use compared to farming.

Definitely, but highly wasteful nonetheless. Easier to tell someone to stop growing their lawn than telling a farmer to stop growing their crops

Depends on the definition of easier. Telling a multitude of voters they don't get to have their Normal Rockwell painting of a life, versus telling a handful (relatively) of farmers that their water usage is now restricted? Lawmakers will choose their interpretation based off of that.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#95

Post by avgDev »

kortilla wrote: post #82
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's silly, it's honestly why my wife and I keep deciding to keep our family here in Ontario despite the rest of my family being out west. We keep talking about moving to British Columbia for lifestyle and social reasons (skiing, family, scenery, politics etc.) but every time I go out west to visit family in Alberta & BC there's forest fires, talk of drought, shrinking glaciers (that supply all drinking…

> and yeah, amazing you're getting downvoted. I've been downvoted here for expressing the same sentiment before. Because it’s an irrational prioritization. It’s like refusing to move to a new location for your dream job because the cost of milk is a little higher. People like yourself and OP tend to struggle with this because it’s hard to imagine water not being an unlimited free resource. Once you think of it like f…

Right....

So holding onto an investment property in a location where I think prices will go up in the next 20 years is irrational. I simply stated my opinion, you can disagree with it all you like.

I'm a programmer, I can do my dream job from the comfort of my home without traveling, wasting my time and gas.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#96

Post by xedrac »

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

A very small (single digit) percentage of Utah grown alfalfa is exported out the country.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#97

Post by chana_masala »

nohuck13 wrote: post #46
ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

> 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Of the remaining 18%, ~ 8% goes to commercial/industrial use ~ 10% goes to municipal residential use (outdoor: 6%, indoor: 4%) [1] [1] https://le.utah.gov/interim/2012/pdf/00002706.pdf

i.e. taking shorter showers ain't gonna cut it

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#98

Post by Niglodonicus »

briga wrote: post #79
Koshkin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But "Muh house!" https://kinder.rice.edu/sites/default/files/files/2017/08/Sc...

Yeaaaaaah, if cities could stop doing that endless unsustainable sprawl thing that would be great

Yeaaaaah, if our whole society could stop doing that endless unsustainable growth thing that would be great.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#99

Post by dylan604 »

dv_dt wrote: post #77
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the stats above, modern amenities of life aren't the main consumer of the water: > 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. In 2021, we don't need to grow Alfalfa in the desert. Especially not when it's being exported out of state anyway.

From your perspective and mine yes, but politically one needs a policy that also addresses all the people already involved making their living from that activity. This is a micro sized problem of the larger scale fractal problem of climate crisis and industrial shifts needed to address it.

What is the number of people directly involved in production of alfalfa in the desert that would no longer have work if the alfalfa production in the desert stopped. Do these jobs absolutely 100% depend on alfalfa, or would they "pivot" to other crops? Is the "farming" sector in Utah that artificial that there is no other crop?

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#100

Post by CountDrewku »

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

>In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert,

You might as well just say people shouldn't be living in most of the western US then since a majority of it receives very little rainfall.

It's very easy to call these people out when you're not directly affected. Yes just strip them of their major sources of income. No issue there....

You need a better plan than just telling the Governor to shut up and be ok with losing money.

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