The Colorado River is shrinking • Hacker News Board

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#41

Post by krferriter » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

We grow crops in the desert because there is so much sun there that the crops grow faster and to a higher consistent quality, and because there is much fewer pests that damage the plants.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#42

Post by dogman144 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

avgDev wrote: post #6

I know this may be silly but one reason why I stay in the "Great lakes states" and own property here is because of global warming and my lack of hope that tech/governments/capitalism will solve it before we reach a point of no return during which we will experience massive property and life loss in the US. Only then significant change will occur IMO. There are places in the south now that need water to be delivered b…

It's not silly. I'm sitting in a coastal tech city but with a remote job for cultural reasons, and looking at what's next after this lease and long term.

I'm not sure how I want to balance the pragmatism I can execute on with this mobility to move to somewhere tolerable in the midwest (MN comes to mind), vs. a common nihilistic trend that warming will affect everyone*, might as well live where I want to live (not MN comes to mind).

I worry we're experiencing "gradually then suddenly" trend with climate developments, but I have difficulty placing if it's a me-concern, or grandkids concern.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#43

Post by 01100011 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

The choice is pretty clear to me. We need a national water grid. Desalinization is great and a piece of the puzzle, but we need a way to distribute water across the country. It could also be leveraged as an energy storage device if we continue to add more reservoirs at various elevations. It's not going to be cheap or easy, but we'd be stupid not to start on it now. The climate changes, and we need to plan for it.

Places in the west have historically, long before humans started increasing carbon dioxide, seen extended droughts lasting tens or hundreds of years. Human driven climate change could exacerbate this issue. If we want to be a people that lasts thousands of years we need to plan for events that happen in a thousand years.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#44

Post by jb775 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

This reminds me of how the glaciers were supposed to be gone by 2020[1].

[1] https://lidblog.com/national-park-service-glaciers/

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#45

Post by cableshaft » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #25

candiddevmike wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap fresh water will become the new oil. I wouldn't be surprised if the ridiculous idea of pumping Lake Michigan to NV/CA comes to fruition.

There are international treaties with Canada that are supposed to forbid that. But yeah, that remains a worry.

The treaty mentioned:

https://www.gsgp.org/media/nvzkrpyv/great_lakes-st_lawrence_...

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#46

Post by nohuck13 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

> 82% of Utah water goes to farmers.

Of the remaining 18%,

~ 8% goes to commercial/industrial use

~ 10% goes to municipal residential use (outdoor: 6%, indoor: 4%) [1]

[1] https://le.utah.gov/interim/2012/pdf/00002706.pdf

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#47

Post by anonAndOn » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

ngngngng wrote: post #10

Approximately 27% of the water used in Utah comes from the Colorado River and 60% of Utahans benefit from the river. 82% of Utah water goes to farmers. Significant amounts of that water usage is to grow Cotton and Alfalfa. Two water intensive crops that are largely exported out of the country. In my opinion we have absolutely no business growing these crops in a desert, especially just to ship them out of the country…

The US exports massive amounts of water in the form of hay and alfalfa.[0] This practice may not survive once the reservoirs completely dry out.

[0]https://alfalfa.ucdavis.edu/+symposium/proceedings/2019/Arti...

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#48

Post by julienb_sea » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

Water supply and runoff efficiency has been quite stable over the past 50 years, according to charts in that article. The main factor in shrinking is that our water usage has ramped up dramatically as population and agriculture demands grow.

One approach might be to implement surcharges associated with water from these reservoirs, to reduce economic viability of overuse, and create incentives to enable other sources of water.

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#49

Post by dogman144 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

Does anyone have educated views on desalinization tech? That seems to be the few ways out of this that's totally within our control. I imagine we'll rob Peter to pay Paul with it via extincting a bunch fish we didn't mean to in desal turbines or something unexpected like that, but that aside..

Re: The Colorado River is shrinking

#50

Post by selectodude » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #43

The choice is pretty clear to me. We need a national water grid. Desalinization is great and a piece of the puzzle, but we need a way to distribute water across the country. It could also be leveraged as an energy storage device if we continue to add more reservoirs at various elevations. It's not going to be cheap or easy, but we'd be stupid not to start on it now. The climate changes, and we need to plan for it. Pl…

No. The Great Lakes are not leaving the Great Lakes area. Ever.