Twike • Hacker News Board

Re: Twike

#151

Post by refurb » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #134

refurb wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a funny take as I live in a developing country and owning a car is seen as the mark of a successful person. No more waiting for public transport. No more getting soaked walking or riding a bike in the rain. Convenience, comfort, time efficient. To say a sedan would be designed today is a ridiculous take. Nobody forced cars on people, they wanted them.

In germany, policies in the 60ies and 70ies were designed to increase car ownership. People didn’t want cars. They wanted transportation from A to B and public policies made cars the most attractive option.

I’m not against public transit. I lived in Taiwan for a while which has very good public transport. But what’s good for a single person doesn’t necessarily work for a family living outside the city. The benefits of owning a car are pretty clear there.

Re: Twike

#152

Post by andai » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:04 PM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #142

everdrive wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you two equivocating between different kinds of "clean?" Animal waste vs. exhaust, metal, and brake and tire particles?

Is it equivocation to call both a puddle and a downpour wet? No. Same for clean here. These are not different definitions of the same word. They are different members of the same category.

Still, there's an important distinction between a fine mist of Alzheimer's inducing particles, and a puddle of horse piss.

Re: Twike

#153

Post by MawKKe » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

isbadawi wrote: post #147

Xylakant wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate the price of owning a car vs. renting one. I can rent a VW Golf in Berlin for 500 EUR per month. (assuming you buy it new, own it for 5 years and drive 15000km/year) https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/autokostenuebersicht_47085.pdf That means I can rent that car for ~5 month and still come out ahead.

There must be a typo somewhere in your comment, I don't understand how 350/week for 5 months is better than 500/month.

I guess what GP meant is that you can rent only whenever you need it, as opposed to 500/month for _every_ month you own?

Re: Twike

#154

Post by AutumnCurtain » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

gillesjacobs wrote: post #57

My father has had his Twike for seven years now. I wouldn't recommend it, the suspension is not up to snuff, even just for daily commute. Getting repairs done is a major difficulty as there are very little parts or mechanics readily available. He also had to sue the Twike company when they tried to defraud us w.r.t. warranty and insure documents. The legal issues have been on-going and they stalled the repair of the…

Simply the cost of it (25.000 euros debut price?) seems to defeat the purpose. The weight being closer by far to a small car than an electric bike doesn't help either. I suppose people who need specifically that much room in their vehicle and/or live somewhere very cold could see utility but given the maintenance issues you mention I'm not surprised it isn't a big seller.

Re: Twike

#155

Post by sunshineforever » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

I actually seriously dream of starting some sort of company to build vehicles like this!

Other than the car designs themselves, my idea is to decentralize the ownership and selling to circumvent the laws about auto manufacturing. Like, "the sharing economy" but we're sharing being auto manufacturers in an independent, collective way. Each member will be able to sell so many "custom cars" as a private individual.

I want to see the USA with tiny little cars and empower people to be able to theoretically build/maintain their own, like a bicycle.

I'm extremely passionate about small vehicles and I think that they will be more popular in the future, when we are facing the more severe effects of climate change and fuel shortage.

I haven't even read the thread yet, and I've never brought this sort of thing up here before, but I'm slowly acquiring the knowledge and skills to make building one at least a personal reality some day.

Now, on to the thread!

Re: Twike

#156

Post by el_nahual » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #131

el_nahual wrote: post #12

Another example of how, if you had to design a vehicle for passenger city/suburban use, you would never ever ever come up with an ICE sedan, or to be honest even an electrical vehicle of "normal" proportions. Pretty sure the car is the most harmful invention of the 20th century. The damage it has done to the environment, our health, and social fabric is hard to grok. A couple edits for clarification: - I'm talking ab…

I think this is a great point, and I've always been on board with the general damage done by cars. The solutions I read about are nearly always focused around the cities. Now, this makes sense, since most people live in cities, and so you can make the biggest impact there. But what about people who live in the country or rural areas? What solutions are there for those sorts of folks?

Even in the USA with it's massive sprawl, most (80%+) of the population is urbanized [0].

The ideal mobility framework is one of interconnected small towns/cities (ideally via rail) with non-vehicle traffic for intra town movements.

People that live out in a farm can drive in (although to be honest even distances of 10 miles can be very conveniently travelled in an ebike).

There's four things that prevent this sort of network from taking hold:

1. At least in the US, the inter-town rail networks have been disbanded or neuterd to a useless extent.

2. No investment for inter-town bus service. You can get to the big city by bus, but not between towns.

3. In most of the small towns in the USA, "main" street is actually a state highway routinely seeing traffic speeds of 50+mph. In other words, the town is divided right down the middle by a highway, with most commerce clustered around this area. This means that even for intra-small-town traffic biking (and sometimes even walking due to a lack of sidewalks!) is dangerous.

[0]: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g...

Re: Twike

#157

Post by jablan » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

bipson wrote: post #19

quicon wrote: post #10

There is a similar four wheeled HEHV being produced in Norway: https://www.podbike.com

Wow, the hoops you have to jump through to find a price! 5k or 5.5k, depending on variant. Although to be practicable (not a hobby), you will have to add quite a few "extras". But not that bad actually! Makes me wonder how it is built.

> With +3100 pre-orders, expected delivery for new pre-orders is 2023.

Re: Twike

#158

Post by acover » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #3

I love this in principle, but the one thing I always wonder about recumbent bicycles is how visible they are to lorries / trucks. I've seen some with a tall aerial-like stem and a flag on top of it, but knowing how bicycles can be pretty invisible to cars even when wearing a reflective top at their eye height, I think I'd always be anxious about being crushed from behind. I suppose that says a lot about cycling infra…

I've wondered how feasible it is to add an automated detection system to a bike that makes a loud noise/light show when it detects a vehicle is driving towards you.

Is radar enough? Would it take too much power?

Re: Twike

#159

Post by el_nahual » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #121

el_nahual wrote: post #12

Another example of how, if you had to design a vehicle for passenger city/suburban use, you would never ever ever come up with an ICE sedan, or to be honest even an electrical vehicle of "normal" proportions. Pretty sure the car is the most harmful invention of the 20th century. The damage it has done to the environment, our health, and social fabric is hard to grok. A couple edits for clarification: - I'm talking ab…

This is a funny take as I live in a developing country and owning a car is seen as the mark of a successful person. No more waiting for public transport. No more getting soaked walking or riding a bike in the rain. Convenience, comfort, time efficient. To say a sedan would be designed today is a ridiculous take. Nobody forced cars on people, they wanted them.

Of course they are seen as the mark of a succesful person...because they are the mark of a successful person. Cars are expensive!

And yes, they are convenient, comfortable and can be time efficient, but with extraordinary negative externalities.

The issue isn't "cars are inconvenient"--the issue is "cars have enormous (and compounding) negative externalities that need to be regulated away, and investment needs to be made in alternative infrastructure because cars really suck for everyone else--and eventually, for car owners themselves."

Re: Twike

#160

Post by InitialLastName » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

trabant00 wrote: post #79

el_nahual wrote: post #12

Another example of how, if you had to design a vehicle for passenger city/suburban use, you would never ever ever come up with an ICE sedan, or to be honest even an electrical vehicle of "normal" proportions. Pretty sure the car is the most harmful invention of the 20th century. The damage it has done to the environment, our health, and social fabric is hard to grok. A couple edits for clarification: - I'm talking ab…

> if you had to design a vehicle for passenger city/suburban use, you would never ever ever come up with an ICE sedan I use a motorcycle 90% of the time in the city. But there's a lot of problems with any specialized transport like this: - parking multiple vehicles per person - learning to drive multiple type of vehicles - bicycle/scooter/Twike can't be used for serious shopping - safety. From the time electric scoot…

> - safety. From the time electric scooters caught on I have numerous examples of people getting seriously hurt with permanent quality of life affecting injuries.

Do you not know anyone who has had a life-affecting injury or was killed while in a car? Not saying scooters don't have their risks, but pretending cars are a paragon of safety seems to be the result of availability bias.