Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#881

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

beauzero wrote: post #869

sokoloff wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around here, 16” cheese pizzas have gone from “around $10” just 8 months ago to “around $15”. Pizza places that would be jammed from 6 to 8 PM with a line for pickup are now ghost towns. The one I was in last night at 8:15, workers outnumbered customers (dine-in plus pickup). The roast beef place that I’d frequent on a particular errand went from $6.50 for a large roast beef to $9.50. What used to be a 15-deep line a…

Anecdotally this is me. I work from home 3 days a week, 2 days in office. Pre-pandemic I ate breakfast, lunch, and sometimes dinner in the road...2.5 hour commute. Food prices have increased 10-40% at each one of those stops. Now I eat one lunch per week out to socialize. The other 5 meals that I used to eat out are groceries I buy at the store and carry in.

The reason I was at this second-choice (also virtually abandoned) pizza place last night was that our normal/preferred pizza place had jacked up their prices so much. This one had done the same, which ensured that parking was plentiful right in front of the joint, but also meant that the owner was forlornly leaning on the empty parking meter rather than being needed inside selling pizzas.

I suspect I'll now mostly eat out when the company is keeping me on the road (and paying for it), but will overall eat a lot more at home now.

Probably healthier anyway, but this can't be good for restaurant owners and workers.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#882

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #874

bluGill wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you learn the job fast food is not stressful. It is hard work, but entirely routine. Most people decide fast food management isn't for them, and move elsewhere. The ones who remain dropped out and need the free training.

Did you read the article? It directly countermands everything you’re saying. I personally can’t figure out why you’d make a claim that’s such transparent nonsense. > Most people decide fast food management isn't for them, and move elsewhere. Perhaps it was too stressful? Just a thought.

I have personally been in fast food, and I worked my way up to management. If what I say contradicts the article, then my personal experience contradicts the article.

Management is more stressful. That is a different from the line worker who has been working the same position for the last 5 years, with no interest in advancing. I saw several people refuse advancements because they didn't want the stress: they knew how to do their job and it wasn't stressful at all anymore. (they learned to shut off the customer who yells at them while the cook is behind on orders - this coping is an important skill)

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#883

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #442

bluGill wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you learn to cook you won't eat at anything less than the most expensive. It is really hard to enjoy a meal when you are thinking "I could have done this better myself at less cost". Chains and fast food just don't provide the quality I demand for the most part, and even the independents are hit and miss.

> Once you learn to cook you won't eat at anything less than the most expensive. This isn't really true. Restaurants exist to fill a bunch of different needs; experience, novelty, convenience etc. And expense isn't a particularly good predictor of quality. I do agree that once you can cook well you're much less likely to be happy at an overpriced generic version of something... which is right where fast casual and bi…

It is at least half true though.

Once you can cook well you learn that cheap is typically bad food. Expensive food can be good or bad, the good is worth it for those other reasons you state.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#884

Post by bambataa » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:05 PM UTC

pcmoney wrote: post #721

AussieWog93 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career. Why shouldn't Sandwich Maker be a viable career? They definitely contribute more to society than HR professionals or agile coaches.

You realize wages based on supply and demand are very accurate at measuring exactly how much value to “society” a job brings? You may disagree but economic equilibrium in the price of a common good such as an agile coach is telling you exactly how much value society believes that job brings.

Yet we have recently had the interesting experience of many low paid workers suddenly being deemed “essential workers”. I don’t think any agile coaches were essential workers.

There are many jobs that are low paid because they are low skilled and have low barriers to entry, but otherwise very useful to society e.g. refuse collectors.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#885

Post by thirdsun » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #356

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

This has been tried many times, you are ignoring the reasons it did not work. The employees hate it because they make less money, forcing the restaurant to go back to tipping. It was effectively a pay cut for employees. It is not wage/revenue neutral because it changes customer behavior. Generally speaking, Americans are more generous when the money goes to directly to a service person than to a faceless business tha…

> This has been tried many times, you are ignoring the reasons it did not work. The employees hate it because they make less money, forcing the restaurant to go back to tipping.

Isn't the solution obvious? Adjust wages/prices to such a degree that it does fully compensate for the missing tips.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#886

Post by lumost » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #786

lumost wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However if all groceries doubled their prices then all workers would demand higher wages to compensate. Other businesses would need to become more efficient with their labor or reduce margins. In the short-term this means CEOs get paid less, and investors see higher ROI in labor efficient business models. It's obvious that teenagers can't make 1k/hr without breaking the economy - but I don't see any reason why $20/hr…

All workers demand higher wages at all times. Workers demanding higher wages stronger and harder won't raise aggregate wages by much, as there is only so much that is actually being produced, and aggregate wages can pretty much only be increased through increase in aggregate supply: the margins are already pretty thin, especially in retail and food service business, and the CEO pay is pretty small component in grand…

Workers do not demand appropriate wages commensurate with their value at all times. I recall making $7.25/hr and having colleagues "doing well" by making $7.50/hr. At the time it was not uncommon for "good" employers in the service sector to promise something along the lines of a $.25/hr raise every 6 months to a year.

Now the problem with this is that the effect is to lower expectations for wages by taking advantage of financial literacy. Someone working for them for 4 years receiving a raise every 6 months earns $2/hr more. The employer/seasoned employees point to this and say that a starting wage $2/hr higher is unreasonable. Unfortunately the fixed rate wage increases diminish over time, and if you think that moving into management/higher level positions would entitle you to more money... then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

When employers mirror this strategy or take other similar approaches, then you end up with wages that are depressed relative to the value of the labor being provided ( or the opportunity value if that labor was applied to other activities, or used more efficiently ).

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#887

Post by xyzzyz » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

rswail wrote: post #865

xyzzyz wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All workers demand higher wages at all times. Workers demanding higher wages stronger and harder won't raise aggregate wages by much, as there is only so much that is actually being produced, and aggregate wages can pretty much only be increased through increase in aggregate supply: the margins are already pretty thin, especially in retail and food service business, and the CEO pay is pretty small component in grand…

> What are the advances in technology between now and 1981 that made restaurants 2x more productive? Microwaves, dishwashers, steam-injection ovens, just-in-time logistics for raw ingredient deliveries, credit cards, online ordering...

Microwaves and dishwashers were popular in commercial environment before 1980, and I don’t think credit cards make a restaurant more productive.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#888

Post by xyzzyz » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

rswail wrote: post #864

xyzzyz wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why shouldn't a teenager make 20 an hour? It's not that he "shouldn't". Rather, many businesses cannot afford to both pay teenage employees $20/h, and also to not raise the prices. Some businesses can raise prices just fine, but others are not able to, as the customers will stop buying at higher price point. For example, if all groceries doubled their food prices, I'd still buy food (though maybe less than before),…

If all restaurants doubled their prices, but, at the same time, paid their employees a proper wage (and made that public) and removed tipping, they could effectively raise their prices 20% (the expected tip) without any impact on the customers. McDonalds manages to make profits in EU/AU/NZ/CA etc while (mnostly) complying with local minimum wages and conditions. The Big Mac index shows that their actual prices are wi…

> If all restaurants doubled their prices, but, at the same time, paid their employees a proper wage (and made that public) and removed tipping, they could effectively raise their prices 20% (the expected tip) without any impact on the customers.

If they doubled they prices, they could increase them by 20%? Huh?

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#889

Post by lumost » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #887

rswail wrote: post #865

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the advances in technology between now and 1981 that made restaurants 2x more productive? Microwaves, dishwashers, steam-injection ovens, just-in-time logistics for raw ingredient deliveries, credit cards, online ordering...

Microwaves and dishwashers were popular in commercial environment before 1980, and I don’t think credit cards make a restaurant more productive.

> I don’t think credit cards make a restaurant more productive.

They certainly reduce the potential for theft/shrinkage! It used to be that you needed a trusted business manager/employee to manage the register, now anyone can do it and it's much harder for someone to siphon funds. All transactions are now viewable to management to more easily see what's selling and what's not.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#890

Post by lumost » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #779

lumost wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't a teenager make 20 an hour? At 16 your looking down the road at 2 very expensive options. 1) Go to college and earn a degree for 120-240k dollars 2) Start paying rent, owning your own car, healthcare, food, and leisure activities. Both of these are expensive directions to take. It used to be that someone could pay for school with a summer job, why shouldn't it be now? It doesn't appear the education cha…

Or they could go to a reasonably priced college for $40k or less and get just as good of a job. $120k is a jokingly high amount of tuition.

Reasonable priced such as an in-state university?

https://www.umass.edu/financialaid/undergraduate/undergradua...

In-state: 30,656 * 4 = 122k

Out Of State: 51,181 * 4 = 205k