Twike • Hacker News Board

Re: Twike

#121

Post by refurb » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

el_nahual wrote: post #12

Another example of how, if you had to design a vehicle for passenger city/suburban use, you would never ever ever come up with an ICE sedan, or to be honest even an electrical vehicle of "normal" proportions. Pretty sure the car is the most harmful invention of the 20th century. The damage it has done to the environment, our health, and social fabric is hard to grok. A couple edits for clarification: - I'm talking ab…

This is a funny take as I live in a developing country and owning a car is seen as the mark of a successful person.

No more waiting for public transport. No more getting soaked walking or riding a bike in the rain.

Convenience, comfort, time efficient.

To say a sedan would be designed today is a ridiculous take. Nobody forced cars on people, they wanted them.

Re: Twike

#122

Post by Akronymus » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

Kaze404 wrote: post #117

benrbray wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone who has trouble understanding this perspective because they've lived in car-dependent hell their entire lives, I recommend the Not Just Bikes channel. He does extremely detailed comparisons of US cities vs Netherlands and other places. Here is a recent one [1]. For me, I always felt that something was wrong about American cities / suburbs but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Then, I spent a few months…

Cities with well thought out public transportation sometimes feel like magic. As a country girl who once moved to a metropolis, the fact that I could walk into literally any subway station and go wherever I wanted in a matter of 30 minutes to an hour at most felt more liberating than I could think of. In a city bigger than some European countries, I had the option to go anywhere I wanted on the weekend for the low pr…

Speaking of subways: IMO vienna has THE best system overall. No turnstiles[1], clean subway trains/stations, quite frequent and cheap (1€ a day with the yearly ticket).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq-X25pH1XQ

Re: Twike

#123

Post by gumby » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #119

gumby wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty sure the car is the most harmful invention of the 20th century. A bit of perspective: the automobile cleaned up cities, which used to have a huge infrastructure to manage animal waste. The automobile enabled freedoms: not just freedom to travel, which the manufacturers emphasize, but freedom of association, unlocked a wider freedom to work, in particular for women, and in general, ironically, enabled the gro…

The automobile did not clean up the streets. The personal automobile was much too expensive for that. Buses and trams and metros and transport trucks and railways and bicycles cleaned up the streets. The average person didn't own a car and use it daily until much after the streets "cleaned up".

Do you have some references for this bold statement? The development of busses, trams, metros etc increased urban traffic (much as widening highways increases traffic, and traffic jams) including animal-drawn traffic, at least in the cities where I have read up on the history of urban transportation (in particular London, Paris, and New York).

The GP mentioned Mumbai, which only recently banned animal traffic. It was packed before the automobile was developed.

Re: Twike

#124

Post by hengheng » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #112

benrbray wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone who has trouble understanding this perspective because they've lived in car-dependent hell their entire lives, I recommend the Not Just Bikes channel. He does extremely detailed comparisons of US cities vs Netherlands and other places. Here is a recent one [1]. For me, I always felt that something was wrong about American cities / suburbs but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Then, I spent a few months…

We could build THREE transcontinental high-speed rail lines every year with the money we spend on personal automobiles Once you get to the western mountains, there are only four rail grades that are suitable for freight. The old Northern through Montana near Glacier National Park; the original Union/Central Pacific route along the Platte and over the Sierras around Donner Pass; the ATSF route across the Colorado Plat…

How's the geology compared to regions of the world that have a dense rail network? I've always found it strange that the stereotype for great rail infrastructure was Switzerland, which would be last on my list of countries to equip.

French TGV climbs 3.5%, German ICE climbs 4%. That simplifies a lot of the route planning. Rail bridges are surprisingly simple and cheap (open area, known loads, no salt) and tunnels are easier the simpler the rock.

I'd say it's no harder than any of the other miracles that we're building on the regular.

Re: Twike

#125

Post by jmrm » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:31 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #81

Reminds me of a Sinclar C5[0] (my grandfather worked for the company I believe, there are photos with him, my mum and a bunch of these C5's) It was mired in troubles; low visibility, low range (lead-acid batteries being... low density compared to li-ion), quite easy to break and being easy to steal. Still, I think the form factor is a wonderful idea and it's nice to see some alternative methods being explored for ele…

Here in Spain there are "fatboys" everywhere, Specially in rural areas as a substitute of mopeds.

Re: Twike

#126

Post by everdrive » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #116

el_nahual wrote: post #12

Another example of how, if you had to design a vehicle for passenger city/suburban use, you would never ever ever come up with an ICE sedan, or to be honest even an electrical vehicle of "normal" proportions. Pretty sure the car is the most harmful invention of the 20th century. The damage it has done to the environment, our health, and social fabric is hard to grok. A couple edits for clarification: - I'm talking ab…

> Pretty sure the car is the most harmful invention of the 20th century. A bit of perspective: the automobile cleaned up cities, which used to have a huge infrastructure to manage animal waste. The automobile enabled freedoms: not just freedom to travel, which the manufacturers emphasize, but freedom of association, unlocked a wider freedom to work, in particular for women, and in general, ironically, enabled the gro…

Are you two equivocating between different kinds of "clean?" Animal waste vs. exhaust, metal, and brake and tire particles?

Re: Twike

#127

Post by heresie-dabord » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

Kaze404 wrote: post #117

benrbray wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone who has trouble understanding this perspective because they've lived in car-dependent hell their entire lives, I recommend the Not Just Bikes channel. He does extremely detailed comparisons of US cities vs Netherlands and other places. Here is a recent one [1]. For me, I always felt that something was wrong about American cities / suburbs but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. Then, I spent a few months…

Cities with well thought out public transportation sometimes feel like magic. As a country girl who once moved to a metropolis, the fact that I could walk into literally any subway station and go wherever I wanted in a matter of 30 minutes to an hour at most felt more liberating than I could think of. In a city bigger than some European countries, I had the option to go anywhere I wanted on the weekend for the low pr…

> go wherever I wanted in a matter of 30 minutes to an hour at most

This concept of traversal-by-foot as an inherent measure of scalability is also known as the Marchetti Constant.

This article has appeared on HN before:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-29/the-commu...

Re: Twike

#128

Post by SigmundA » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

chrismorgan wrote: post #105

This sort of electrical/pedalling hybrid is an interesting space, but one where legislation is often a real downer. I’m currently planning to build a velomobile that I can live out of while cycling round Australia for a year. A trailer too, designed around a digital piano and some sort of fridge (either a production model or one constructed manually from a compressor). It’ll end up heavy enough¹ that I’ll want to put…

In all my research mechanical -> electrical -> mechanical double conversion is significantly less efficient than a direct mechanical drivetrain. It seems to come down to about 80% for the best electrical vs >95% for mechanical [1][2].

Also there is a weight issue the generator is at least as heavy as the motor and thats a big problem on bikes.

Trains do it because they need precise traction control and have little concern for the weight. They sacrifice running efficiency for it but everything else makes them very efficient at running (low rolling resistance and low aerodynamic drag).

Also the unsprung weight of hub motors causes various issues as well especially if you have suspension for ride comfort. Most electric bikes are moving to mid drives anyway which is going to have a chain or belt.

1. https://pages.jh.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html

2. http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2010/ph240/veltman2/

Re: Twike

#129

Post by jmrm » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

hkt wrote: post #47

samcheng wrote: post #41

These things are still a bit far outside the mainstream, but if anyone hasn't tried an ebike yet, I highly encourage it! It really is magic mobility, with the free feeling of being on a bike, without the sweat or the necessary fitness to travel at 20 or even 25 mph. I don't think Twikes (or other recumbent bikes / velomobiles) will gain popularity in the near term, but I'm very confident that ebikes will continue to…

In the UK they're limited to 15mph and only operate in assist mode (as opposed to full drive). Where are you that allows that kind of speed?

But who keep an eye on that? In Spain the speed limit of any bike is 45 km/h (around 28 mph), and when we are in the road with bigger limits to other vehicles, outside the city normally, we are faster than that (if we can) and nobody bothers. Even the police won't tell you anything unless you're doing something dangerous.

Re: Twike

#130

Post by brudgers » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

hengheng wrote: post #124

brudgers wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could build THREE transcontinental high-speed rail lines every year with the money we spend on personal automobiles Once you get to the western mountains, there are only four rail grades that are suitable for freight. The old Northern through Montana near Glacier National Park; the original Union/Central Pacific route along the Platte and over the Sierras around Donner Pass; the ATSF route across the Colorado Plat…

How's the geology compared to regions of the world that have a dense rail network? I've always found it strange that the stereotype for great rail infrastructure was Switzerland, which would be last on my list of countries to equip. French TGV climbs 3.5%, German ICE climbs 4%. That simplifies a lot of the route planning. Rail bridges are surprisingly simple and cheap (open area, known loads, no salt) and tunnels are…

Compared to the geography of Switzerland, it makes sense to talk of a trans-continental railroad in the US and is absurd in relation to Switzerland. You can put three Switzerland's (or one Portugal) in the Mojave desert.

To put it another way, Europeans haven't built high speed rail from London to Baku for similar reasons. The tree lined cloisters where political theory makes all nation states equal is not a good model of physical reality.Swiss rail hasn't connected Bern to Baghdad.