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Our lawsuit against ChessBase

stockfishchess.org

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Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#221

Post by suyjuris »

PennRobotics wrote: post #152
Jolter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany? Are you sure about that?

It seems there has already been one similar case in Germany where an open source copyright violation occurred but no damages could be awarded. Specifically, a higher court overturned the damages permitted by a lower court. (in German) https://www.cmshs-bloggt.de/gewerblicher-rechtsschutz/urhebe...

But crucially, in that case the infringer did not make money based on their infringement, and the actual infringement was minor. (Specifically, a university failed to provide a copy of the GPL license alongside a download of the software, which they offered free of charge.)

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#222

Post by encryptluks2 »

saurik wrote: post #200
encryptluks2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I filed a lawsuit against someone who is using the money they stole frome to defend themselves. Basically if I win the money I get will be essentially gone and the Defendant will not have the means to pay anything back.

I feel like you are supposed to be able to get an injunction against this, but in practice it is probably stupid hard :(.

In Federal court the U.S. Supreme Court has set a high burden of proof for a plaintiff seeking an injunction. Unfortunately, once case law is established its nearly impossible to change. In this instance, in a civil case based on diversity it would be really difficult to prove public interest. Generally injunctions in federal courts are used to prevent states from doing things, like proceeding with an execution or changing voting laws.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#223

Post by amalcon »

andi999 wrote: post #214
remus wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im amazed they found a bank who would provide a mortgage against a property that was part of a legal dispute over ownership.

How would a bank know?

In the US anyway, most banks will require the buyer to purchase something called "title insurance" -- which is basically insurance against unknown claims against the property. That insurer will generally look into things at least a little bit.

Obviously it could be different in the Czech Republic.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#224

Post by pasc1878 »

TheGoodBarn wrote: post #149
gaius_baltar wrote: post #107

Fat Fritz 2 is distributed in the Steam Store [1], which is under US jurisdiction. Should not this be a good use for DMCA take down? [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1587750/Fat_Fritz_20_SE/

Never heard of ChessBase or the game before, but interesting choice on them to copy the Microsoft Word look and feel for their game haha.

One point of writing for macos or Windows is to follow the system guidelines.

So a good program should look and feel similar to other programs

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#225

Post by aliswe »

yoyoplayer wrote: post #180

From the article: "developers of Stockfish have terminated their GPL license with ChessBase permanently" https://www.debian.org/social_contract states: "The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons." Thus, is Stockfish no longer DSFG?

The license itself may not discriminate, but they may issue (and subsequently revoke) the license to whom they will. It's like some companies licensing with AGPL and then issuing LGPL or even proprietary licenses to whoever pays them for it (so they can use it in their projects at their own discretion).

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#226

Post by jimmytucson »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #169
qwertox wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will be easily won against ChessBase. They F'd up. German court does care way too much for the "Urheberrecht" -- copyright -- and this is clearly a violation of it. If they would let this go through, nobody would take the German court serious again, and there is too much interest in not letting that happen. In any case, they also sell a music software called "Ludwig 3" [1]. I now wouldn't be surprised if it also…

I don’t think it will be so easily won: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27900683 Note that it’s legal to sell stockfish as long as you’re compliant with GPLv3. ChessBase seems to be compliant. Stockfish argues that ChessBase isn’t compliant because they refuse to release the weights. But this makes no sense; the weights are distributed with every copy of Fat Fritz 2. (Otherwise, how would the program run? It’s n…

    > I think it’s lame that ChessBase sold stockfish for $80.
I’m interested to know how ChessBase was able to charge $80. If their software were licensed under GPL then couldn’t anyone have asked for its source code and compiled it themselves, for free?

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#227

Post by thom »

TheGoodBarn wrote: post #149
gaius_baltar wrote: post #107

Fat Fritz 2 is distributed in the Steam Store [1], which is under US jurisdiction. Should not this be a good use for DMCA take down? [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1587750/Fat_Fritz_20_SE/

Never heard of ChessBase or the game before, but interesting choice on them to copy the Microsoft Word look and feel for their game haha.

Worth pointing out that ChessBase isn't strictly a game, it's more a research tool aimed at pros and club players. That said, it is a pretty poor UI even for those purposes.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#228

Post by Cthulhu_ »

andi999 wrote: post #214
remus wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im amazed they found a bank who would provide a mortgage against a property that was part of a legal dispute over ownership.

How would a bank know?

They wouldn't since the property deed was transferred; as long as a court doesn't rule that the transfer was illegal because of forged signatures, the bank won't / shouldn't do anything - what if the accusation is baseless. If a court does rule that the transfer was fraudulent, the bank can cancel the mortgage and demand immediate repayment.

Of course, once it's time for a criminal to pay up, both they and the money mysteriously vanishes.

TL;DR, identity verification should be improved. Signatures are not working.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#229

Post by Cthulhu_ »

michaelmrose wrote: post #210
daxcurzon wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how it works in Czech Republic. Two brothers defrauded the government by forging signatures of the owners and notaries for the transfer of property deeds and took several hundred thousand Euros worth of land from various people. My friend's family has been in court for 10 years trying to get it back. The brothers mortgaged the properties to pay for litigation. The real shit sandwich is that one brother died,…

How do you keep people from taking justice into their own hands in such situations?

You don't, but the legal case will be thrown out if the victim assaults the accused and the victim may go to jail for assault or whatever.

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, of course.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#230

Post by noduerme »

erfgh wrote: post #205
Lordarminius wrote: post #194

> Thus, to enforce the consequences of the license termination, we have filed a lawsuit... We believe we have the evidence, the financial means and the determination to bring this lawsuit to a successful end. The part about financial means stood out for me. All societies should work harder to ensure that money is not an impediment to obtaining justice.

"Work harder" does not mean much though. It's an empty saying.

Yeah, the system is worthless and nothing can fix it. So why try? This is the kind of nihilistic ideation that leads to a generation of basement troglodytes waiting for their mom to die so they can own a house. The system is definitely here to stay, so either working harder to fix said system is a notional good or else we're all supposed to give up. This is the problem with quests for justice being entirely online and not based in any kind of daily reality.
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