Earlier quoted context omitted.
It can't be used to send a message because all you can do is measure your particle. Even if doing so changes the state of the other particle far away (which isn't really what's happening, but that doesn't matter), all the other person at the end can do is measure their particle. Neither of you can choose what the state of either particle is. You have no control, so there's no way to transmit information. What you can…
I now have to imagine that Quantum Game Theory is a thing that exists.
How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
271–280 of 356 posts
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
None of my arguments here have been classical syllogisms and so none of my arguments can be "logical fallacies". Your not responding to the meaning of my informal statements in a rather transparently bad faith manner.
Please stop trying to win a debate. You haven't actually addressed what I or anyone else wrote. If you want people to discuss with you, understand they expect you to do the same. A logical fallacy is an error in reasoning that is based on poor or faulty logic.
Lol, it seems clear you are the one setting up a debate and attempting to win it. I actually am working on the implications of the "simulation" argument. All of my positions are based "plausible reasoning" with similarities to formal logic being only incidental.
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#273If we were in a simulation, would the speed of light be the processing speed of the universe as each area re-renders, and spooky action at a distance be two variables pointed to the same memory location, populated with a lazy-loaded value, with copy-on-write semantics? edit: seems like it is lazy loaded, so revised my summary.
If the Universe were {analogy} is {real thing} related to {analogous thing}?
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
One is an assertion with no logic to justify it, the other is an assertion with a somewhat persuasive argument justifying it [1]. They are simply incomparable. [1] https://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html
But how is the simulation hypothesis not positing a "god" of some sort (some kind of super-intelligence that they claim is behind it all)? It seems like the simulation hypothesis is a theistic hypothesis. Or do they assume the simulation just evolved? Also, why the assumption that post-humans are running the simulations (as in the paper)? Couldn't it be any ultra-advanced civilization that's playing with an evolution…
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Entanglement is only applicable when there is a superposition of conjugate pairs. Without it, there is literally no entanglement whatsoever.
Please tell me you aren’t always this autistic
It is not about state, that you do not know, but state that is not yet there.
When one particle's state decomposes from superposition of states to a single state, given the assumption of quantum theory, it also affects the state of particle that is physically separated from the particle. That is the spookiness.
If we assume that the quantum particles are always in superposition of states, the question is how can one particle's observation can affect another particle at distance.
If you take out, indeterminate state assumption, then it is indeed missing the point of 'spooky action at distance'.
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Total layman, I’m sure I’ll get corrected if I’m wrong here: Bell's Theorem is just a model showing how two sets of measurements of certain properties of entangled particles would differ in a “Quantum Physics” regime where there is spooky action at a distance changing the measured properties versus a “common sense” regime where both particles leave the entanglement site with those properties already set. [0] is a fai…
Why can't you control the outcome on your end? Or can we just not do it yet?
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can not use QM for faster-than-light communication: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem
U.S. Department of Energy unveils blueprint for the quantum internet: https://news.fnal.gov/2020/07/u-s-department-of-energy-unvei... Fermilab and partners achieve sustained, high-fidelity quantum teleportation: https://news.fnal.gov/2020/12/fermilab-and-partners-achieve-...
This is how quantum teleportation works.
Alice and Bob have entangled qubits A and B, and also Alice has a qubit C with some state that she wants to send to Bob , and Bob has some other Qubit D. To do this, Alice does some operations between qubits A and C, which includes a measurement. Alice then sends the classical information which is the result of the measurement to Bob. Bob then does some operations with the qubits B and D, where the operations he does are chosen based on the classical information signal he received from Alice. Iirc these observations include making a measurement. As a result, the qubit D is now in the state that the qubit C was in originally. (Alice no longer has access to the state that C was in.) So, in a sense, the state teleported from C to D, using the combination of the entangled A and B, along with sending some classical information. (The classical information sent is random, and to anyone snooping on the message sent, gives them no useful information, because they don’t have Bob’s qubit B to use it with.)
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of the 3 assertions in the abstract, the obviously false one is #2: "Any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history". When you realize that running a simulation of the universe requires more processing power than is available in the universe, this is very obviously false. I respect people who believe in a bearded White omnipotent homophobic Go…
> Of the 3 assertions in the abstract, the obviously false one is #2: "Any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history". When you realize that running a simulation of the universe requires more processing power than is available in the universe, this is very obviously false. I think you've expressed a number of confusions. First, I think you co…
Right, but the simulation is nonetheless bottlenecked by whichever system requires the greatest fidelity, and the more technology advances, the more of a problem that becomes. For instance, medieval times would likely be far easier to simulate than modern times, because the latter requires simulating our entire computer infrastructure.
And I think that infrastructure is harder to simulate than you'd think: I could use a solver on a big NP problem (we'll assume that P != NP), get a solution after an hour, and in theory, with some practice, I could probably check if the answer is correct in my head. So the simulator can't simply give me what I "expect". It has to actually compute the thing, and then it's clear that the faster our computers get, the slower the simulation has to run.
Alternatively, the simulation could mess with our minds so we never notice anything out of place, but at that point I'm not sure I understand the point of it. Might as well wonder if this is all a dream.
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#279Nature's internals have no mind. They are overwhelmed by the mighty surroundings and always redlining, pushing themselves to the limit. Need an electron? Nature looks all around, not just the nearest bonded atom. That's magnetism.
Nature also takes the easiest path. Using it's own internals as a medium of interaction makes things easier. That's electromagnetic radiation.
We're dealing with a vast ocean of the medium of spacetime, not little building blocks of matter. In terms of (space + relative clocks) EM radiation travelling through empty space has internals of it's own. Electricity will repel or attract the entire thing. No further electromagnetism with that empty space itself. But magnetism, it gets to interact again, take an easier route using it's own internals as the medium of interaction. If you want to entangle an electron, make it so interacting with the internals of one interacts with another.
To exist, something has to give some resistance to surrounding interactions. If it happened immediately, it's just the surroundings. That's how we get the speed of light and the discrete nature of light frequencies. Besides electromagnetism, there's other interactions. Mass, as in nuclear decay, or triple pole "color" charge. Simulations and holograms mean that resistance to interaction will be much more simpler that the internals. Black holes do this. They're just one big 2D dot. Things that fall into them are crunched up on the surface.
Bell's Theorem is like measuring from the inside of a spinning coin that's growing, and stopping it. That's where Bell's Theorem, and the speed of light has more to gain. Why fight it? It's awesome. I think of plasma applications of the sun. That star orbits a black hole which can and does zap electrons into existence from empty space by crunching up a positron of a pair. What if we get good enough at that things stop looking like electrons but look like distant stars? Would that be a drive that warps the space time around our solar system, and suddenly the universe is much more smaller.
Re: How Bell’s Theorem proved ‘spooky action at a distance’ is real
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
The universe seems to have surely went to great lengths to trick its own atoms into believing they have free will. :)
I don't know what you mean. The number of atoms involved in the free will delusion is infintesimal compared to the number of atoms in the universe. Number of atoms in 8 billion human brains: about 10^35 number of atoms in the universe about 10^82 according to search results. Maybe there are no aliens but homo sapiens are just the first stage of the universe becoming self aware.