Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by AussieWog93 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #666

AussieWog93 wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that. I run a small business. I know other small business owners. An MBA-like focus on hyperefficiency is rare. Usually people have their views about how the world should work and act in accordance with that. Some people will come around,…

It doesn't take a MBA-like focus to think "Gee..only if we had more margin, we'd pay more". This entire thread is totally out of touch with reality.

>It doesn't take a MBA-like focus to think "Gee..only if we had more margin, we'd pay more".

It does take razor-sharp focus and constant innovation to work out how you can increase margin, though. You can't just arbitrarily raise prices without offering any additional value and expect your business to stay alive.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by bluGill » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #537

bluGill wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spouses who needed to get out of the house while their other half was at work. They loved going to work with the same friends every day, chatting while cleaning up after the lunch shift... There was enough work to not be bored. There are a lot of people who like having a job, but don't really need the money. Those that need the money move up to management if they can.

> There are a lot of people who like having a job, but don't really need the money. These people exist, I do not believe that any of them work at fast food restaurants. That’s an incredible amount of stress to put yourself through to “get out of the house” and meet new people. > Those that need the money move up to management if they can. I think you’re overestimating the size of management by quite a bit.

Once you learn the job fast food is not stressful. It is hard work, but entirely routine.

Most people decide fast food management isn't for them, and move elsewhere. The ones who remain dropped out and need the free training.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by gruez » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #525

gruez wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people in this thread would be pretty upset if all tech companies got together tomorrow and decided to artificially cap salaries and bought politicians to enforce it. Are you claiming that wages in the restaurant industry are kept artificially low because of companies artificially capping salaries, and that politicians are enforcing it? If so, is there a source for this? AFAIK the pay is bad purely because of m…

Yes: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped Federal minimum wage is $7.25 for tipped employees its $2.13 Lobbying groups contribute to keeping wages low: https://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/04/14/chain-restauran... Herman Cain former presidential candidate and CEO of godfather's pizza specifically built his lobbying career on this. Not claiming it, its a fact.

>Not claiming it, its a fact.

The "facts" in this comment are similar, but not the same as the claims made in your original comment. Specifically, it only presents evidence of businesses removing government restrictions on the minimum price of labor. It does not present evidence of businesses keeping wages "artificially low" (ie. below the natural market clearing price). If anything, removing the restrictions stops restaurant wages from being artificially high.

The closer analogy here would be if for whatever reason there was a law saying that "engineers" had to be paid $200k minimum, and tech companies lobbied for software engineers to be exempt. That's already very different than software companies suppressing wages (eg. by colluding with each other not to compete on wages). Another wrinkle to this is that tipped employees receive tips. If software engineers were receiving royalties in addition to their normal salaries, I would think it's fair for them to be paid lower minimum wage than other engineers that don't receive royalties.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by ThrowawayR2 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

patentatt wrote: post #495

bluGill wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a certain amount of investment needed to keep going. If you are going to close the restaurant next year you can keep the current tables, otherwise replace them before they get too worn out. Or maybe it is the fry machine at the end of life, replace it for $50,000. If the restaurant continues for a few more years it is worth it, to fix/replace things, but if the restaurant is doomed it is better to cut your l…

I realize this was in hypothetical terms, but do fry machines really cost $50k!?

A casual search shows machines costing from $1k to $42k: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/14389/electric-fryers.html

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by brutal_chaos_ » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

okaram wrote: post #543

brutal_chaos_ wrote: post #248

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Amazon/Walmart are capable of raising wages to add more/retain employees. Other smaller business aren't able to adjust as quickly, thus the big box stores take on way more workers. If everyone raised wages at the same time (a la minimum wage increase or otherwise), then Amazon nor Walmart would look like that much of a better place to work, eliminating the "boo they're using their huge scale to further crush their co…

But what would prevent Amazon/Walmart to raise wages even more? That is what they are doing now, right?

> raise wages even more?

Nothing, good point.

> That is what they are doing now, right?

I haven't seen that near where I live (in the US) though I wouldn't doubt there are a number of locations experiencing that.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by monocasa » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

ahallock wrote: post #612

jackson1442 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business can’t afford to pay its employees enough make rent and buy groceries, perhaps it shouldn’t be a business?

In high school, I worked at a fast food joint to make a little extra money. There were no expectations to pay rent or other essentials. But you'll say that it's not kids working these jobs, so we need to provide a livable wage. What about getting these people skills for better jobs? I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career.

Was the fast food joint closed while school was in session?

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by ambrose2 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #519

ambrose2 wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students often need to decide during undergrad to apply to grad school and at that point many are 19 or 20 years old. Not teenagers is a little pedantic.

Applying to grad school is not making a commitment. One still has two more years. At any time while in grad school, one can google starting salaries, and stop digging in deeper if the math doesn't work.

I wouldn’t underestimate the feeling of the sunken cost (especially after studying and taking the GRE, writing essays, getting recommendations from professors). For someone relatively young who isn’t aware of alternatives nor has prepared for alternatives, it’s not surprising they would keep going down the path feeling they have no better choice at that point, only a choice to imagine their future selves will work even harder to “make it”.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by bluGill » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #366

bluGill wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't hard to start a new business. There are a ton off niches that Walmart and Amazon don't server well. Find one and serve it, then use profits to expand into the much larger (though lower margin!) areas that Walmart or Amazon serve. Good luck - it is not easy to run a business.

Just wait until either Amazon or Walmart or both block your account for reasons . No soup for you.

If Amazon or Walmart is part of your plan you need a better plan. Try selling oil well drilling supplies in oil country (I have family doing this, and they have cornered thus niche, so don't try that exactly, but it is the type of thing. They make it because they have in stock the special parts needes for that niche and Walmart won't)

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by bluGill » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

patentatt wrote: post #495

bluGill wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a certain amount of investment needed to keep going. If you are going to close the restaurant next year you can keep the current tables, otherwise replace them before they get too worn out. Or maybe it is the fry machine at the end of life, replace it for $50,000. If the restaurant continues for a few more years it is worth it, to fix/replace things, but if the restaurant is doomed it is better to cut your l…

I realize this was in hypothetical terms, but do fry machines really cost $50k!?

Depends on size. Big ones were that much 20 years ago when I last priced them. Of course there are smaller models and used as well.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Post by AussieWog93 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

meowkit wrote: post #677

AussieWog93 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career. Why shouldn't Sandwich Maker be a viable career? They definitely contribute more to society than HR professionals or agile coaches.

This is not a great hill to die on, but I’ll bite a bit. If I fundamentally disagree with fast food as objects of consumption than I might think every job in this field should not be viable. There are costs to society (“externalities”) that places like Wendy’s are not held responsible for (obesity epidemic). All said, Sandwich Maker is a viable career, to me, if its in a boutique/gourmet shop where the food is prepar…

>There are costs to society (“externalities”) that places like Wendy’s are not held responsible for (obesity epidemic).

This is a valid point. Western society should be making an effort to ensure that there are cheap, convenient, healthier fast food options like what you see in Asia.

My comment was more in response to the parent, who was drawing a distinction between "real jobs" and "entry level jobs". I believe we should treat people in low-skill jobs with more respect, as they actually produce things we need and want as a society. Many people in "real jobs", on the other hand, produce (or facilitate the production of) nothing.