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Restaurant workers quit at record rate

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Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#661

Post by flippertheD »

browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

Well, all businesses run operations dif and have dif margins, so let's not forget that. I run a recruiting company. From our data a few things have popped up. First, people want higher wages in the lower wage industries. They are asking for $15-20 per hour. Second, lot of these people don't want to go back to the same labor jobs they had - they want to do something different. the problem with this is that they want to get paid more than they were making before for jobs in which they have no exp. For those that think the worker knows they can get more money, it's not the majority. They only know if someone told them. A lot of low wage workers who risked it and stuck it out during the pandemic are upset they really didn't get wage increases. Their employers sure didn't offer it to them. And now they want to quit and get their benefits like the rest. There is a lot going on here. One group though that does want to work are the teenagers. Issue is that they want $20 per hour...this fiasco is probably going to continue for a while.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#662

Post by mdavis6890 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #460
mdavis6890 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we are observing is the Demand Curve shifting left (people less interested in eating out) and the Supply Curve shifting down (the people willing to work in restaurants for any given wage is going down). Remember that supply and demand curves cover all wages/prices and quantities, they are not specific to a certain price/wage or quantity. This is observed as a shortage - more customers willing to buy a restaurant…

I don’t think so. Hilton Head Island, SC is a great example of the trend that COVID accelerated. Hilton Head is a popular vacation destination, but as development started radiating inland towards I95, all of the workers are priced out. The housekeeper at the hotel I stayed at in 2019 commuted 2.5 hours daily, and restaurants started reducing hours due to labor shortages. COVID made it worse, but the problem existed b…

"restaurants started reducing hours..." >> This is EXACTLY what I mean by "supply curve shifting down." Restaurants are not willing to supply the same number of meals/hours to the market at the given price.

"My understanding this year is that popular restaurants require reservations 60+ days in advance." >> This is what a shortage looks like. Long lines and empty shelves. People who are willing to pay the advertised price, but can't because there isn't anything to buy.

"started reducing hours due to labor shortages." >> Meaning that there is more demand for labor than supply at the current price (wage). The supply curve for labor moved down, causing a shortage of labor at the current price. That's a 'shortage' as perceived by businesses that don't want to pay the actual market clearing price/wage.

In your example, a labor shortage is leading to a restaurant shortage. In both cases caused by changes in the supply and/or demand curves (down and/or right, respectively).

You could also go farther upstream to the housing market and say that because the supply curve of housing moved down, house prices went up, and that caused labor's supply curve to move down accordingly.

All of these things ultimately mean fewer things and less stuff, at higher prices.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#663

Post by mandelbrotwurst »

grayfaced wrote: post #597
koolba wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly what’s happening. The States that ended the extend benefits have lower unemployment rates. Ex: https://apnews.com/article/business-health-alabama-coronavir...

Of course you have lower rates of people collecting unemployment when you end unemployment extensions. You can lower it to 0% by killing the program altogether. You'd be better looking at rates of employment.

Unemployment rates refer to the share of workers who are out of work, not the share who are receiving benefits - i.e. it’s the rate at which people are unemployed, not the rate at which they are “on unemployment”

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#664

Post by AgentOrange1234 »

chaostheory wrote: post #647
Aloha wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just wages - like alot of what we can do is making shitty jobs less miserable, ensuring everyone gets some amount of vacation and sick time, insuring everyone has cheap or free healthcare access, ensuring everyone has relatively fixed schedule - eliminate punitive workplace policies, on stuff like attendance and other shit that makes being there miserable. Like, you can do a hell of alot to reduce peoples da…

All of that costs money. Are we as customers willing to pay for it? While a lot of us on HN can afford the price increases, not everyone else can. I have a feeling that wage increases will come, but there will be less employees and the remaining better paid employees will be augmented with technology in order to serve more customers ie more automation

Businesses might ask customers to pay more. They might instead pay CEOs and investors less.

Automation is coming regardless.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#665

Post by avidiax »

tomc1985 wrote: post #503
kop316 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be the case for some....but that is not the case for all. For one ancedote, my father in-law runs a restaurant with my aunt in-law (his sister). They are the only workers, and split the profits evenly. They are in the midwest (low taxes), and own the restaurant's property/building. They were able to completely shut down during COVID and restart back up, and have survived several economic downturns. They are…

Business owners can raise their prices slowly. You know, boil the frog. Surely that prevents the harsh reactions that customers have to suddenly having the price raised?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing

$9 or $9.50 for a beer is the most you can charge in some places. You'll suddenly put people off if the beer is $10.

What you can do is charge $9 for a 14 oz beer (previously 16 oz), which is roughly like charging $10.28. Can only do that trick once, though. Or you can increase the size to 24 oz and charge $14.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#666

Post by systemvoltage »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #624
itsoktocry wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that.

>I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that. I run a small business. I know other small business owners. An MBA-like focus on hyperefficiency is rare. Usually people have their views about how the world should work and act in accordance with that. Some people will come around,…

It doesn't take a MBA-like focus to think "Gee..only if we had more margin, we'd pay more".

This entire thread is totally out of touch with reality.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#667

Post by rendall »

flippertheD wrote: post #661
browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

Well, all businesses run operations dif and have dif margins, so let's not forget that. I run a recruiting company. From our data a few things have popped up. First, people want higher wages in the lower wage industries. They are asking for $15-20 per hour. Second, lot of these people don't want to go back to the same labor jobs they had - they want to do something different. the problem with this is that they want t…

It sounds like a seller's market.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#668

Post by _wp3r »

bena wrote: post #302
WhompingWindows wrote: post #93

I go to a breakfast shop a lot, they lost around 1/2 of their staff permanently due to COVID, It majorly jostled the restaurant sector around here. I asked the owner, "Well, why'd they leave?". He claims "They're getting more on unemployment than if they worked." Well, why is that the case? Don't you provide them with enough to live on? If they're getting $500 a week from unemployment, that would mean you're paying p…

Be aware that you can't entirely trust his perception of the situation. He has a vested interest in under-paying his workforce. He is going to doom and gloom any situation that results in him potentially losing money. And him losing out on profit to pay his staff probably doesn't enter his mind. If he made $X of profit last year, he wants to make $X+ this year. So he figures if he has to pay people Y more, he will ha…

So you are saying that the employer is under charging(by proxy of labor cost) and the customer is over paying at the same time?

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#669

Post by ajsnigrutin »

posguy wrote: post #284
kop316 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be the case for some....but that is not the case for all. For one ancedote, my father in-law runs a restaurant with my aunt in-law (his sister). They are the only workers, and split the profits evenly. They are in the midwest (low taxes), and own the restaurant's property/building. They were able to completely shut down during COVID and restart back up, and have survived several economic downturns. They are…

Sounds like its time for them to raise prices past what they deem to be a reasonable rise. Other restaurants in the area will likely do the same, and not pricing yourself to match can cause a drop in business as people seem to think the more they pay the better the quality (especially when your service or offering is priced on the low end of the market). You might look at this and say charging $4 for X item is alread…

The problem is also the alternatives.

I could get a "burek" (pastry with cheese) for 2eur, it's cheap, it fills you up, and you continue with your day.

Or I could order a pizza delivery... pizza used to be in the 6-8eur range if you lived near the restaurant, so for 12, 13 eur I could get two pizzas delivered to my home.

Then "the plague" came, the local pizzeria was closed, delivery was taken over by "app companies" (wolt here), they charge percentages of the food price + delivery cost, so the price of the pizza has gone up to 9-10eur (to cover the wolt fee), and with the delivery fee, we're talking 20-22eur for two pizzas. After the reopenings, the prices in the restaurant are the same as on wolt + with drinks, we're talking close to 30eur for two pizzas and drink.

If bureks cost 2.5eur or even 3eur (50% higher), they're still "cheap", and people will buy them. With pizza going from 12, 14eur to 20-25eur, I can make a huge amount of very good food at home, and saving 15eur to eat healthier makes it worth it.

TLDR: at some price point (that I currently feel we're at now, with some foods atleast here), it isn't worth it anymore to eat out. Everybody might rise their prices, but less people will eat outside, lowering the overall profits of everyone.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#670

Post by frankbreetz »

ragnot wrote: post #614
dgudkov wrote: post #447

All those people who write "Just raise wages!" clearly never managed a restaurant.

Why do you say that? Genuinely curious...not trying to troll.

Restaurants operate with notoriously small margins, it is probably hard to raise wages and keep prices down enough to be competitive.
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