Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#621

Post by jdavis703 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #73

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in…

It’s crazy out there. I checked in to the emergency room during peak COVID for a non-COVID emergency. After going through a metal detector there were six beefy security guards packed tight in a small vestibule that definitely wasn’t socially distanced. I can only imagine what kind of terrible patients the staff have to deal with if they have that level of security.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#622

Post by throwawayboise » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

brankoB wrote: post #485

stevejb wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guilt trip? I have never felt this ever. I pay a tip proportional to the service. 10% bad, 15% average, 20-25% for very good. As an American living in Australia, I really do miss tipping. I think that on average the restaurant service here is a lot lower. At most restaurants at the medium level (e.g. $25 hamburgers) you pay in advance, and then a waiter will bring the food to you when its ready. Do you need more wate…

The fact you're tipping 10% for bad service shows the guilt trip is working

If you tip zero it's plausible that you forgot. If you tip low you're sending a message.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#623

Post by ABCLAW » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

mirkules wrote: post #596

robotresearcher wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naive question: why not raise prices?

Because if everyone raises their prices, the wage increase then effectively makes no difference. If everyone raises wages, they have to raise prices. For the restaurant, this means they have to charge more for the same service, and they have to pay more for their supply chain (because they also increased their prices). For the worker, that means they will pay more for things and services they need/want, because every…

>Because if everyone raises their prices, the wage increase then effectively makes no difference.

Not really. The relative elasticity of various goods and services (including labour) will determine which parties ultimately shoulder the cost. The additional costs could cut through margins or they could be passed on.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#624

Post by AussieWog93 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:38 AM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #530

browningstreet wrote: post #498

I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages. In the vacation community where I live, there are two grocery/delis about a mile apart from each other. One is at a marina, the other is at a beach. They have almost the same business offering. Traditionally, both are fully mobbed during the sunny seasons. Two weeks ago, I visited the one I usually go to -- at the…

> I think some businesses are going out of businesses because they stubbornly refuse to raise their wages I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that.

>I'm skeptical that a business would choose to go out of business rather that give raises. Have you considered that margins are tighter than you think? I know small businesses like that.

I run a small business. I know other small business owners. An MBA-like focus on hyperefficiency is rare. Usually people have their views about how the world should work and act in accordance with that.

Some people will come around, but plenty of others will fail to adapt, go out of business and blame "the economy".

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#625

Post by jackson1442 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:38 AM UTC

ahallock wrote: post #612

jackson1442 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business can’t afford to pay its employees enough make rent and buy groceries, perhaps it shouldn’t be a business?

In high school, I worked at a fast food joint to make a little extra money. There were no expectations to pay rent or other essentials. But you'll say that it's not kids working these jobs, so we need to provide a livable wage. What about getting these people skills for better jobs? I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career.

What skills does a line cook at Wendy’s learn aside from “how a job works?”

Also, who staffs Wendy’s from morning until schools let out during the day? I haven’t seen seasonal fast food restaurants anywhere near me.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#626

Post by cwkoss » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

njovin wrote: post #61

luffapi wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is absolutely true, it would also make the job very stressful (and potentially dangerous) if front-line staff, or any staff really, has to eject people on a regular basis. I definitely wouldn’t want to do it, the people who you’d be refusing service to would be the worst of the worst and likely not take it well.

Maybe if enough businesses did this it would drive a societal shift. I've had the pleasure of firing a small handful of customers from my very small SaaS business when they were outrightly rude or vulgar. I feel terrible whenever I see an employee at any business having to be sanguine with an abusive customer, it shouldn't be tolerated.

If other customers object to rude customers behavior and demand they are kicked out, it destroys "customer is always right" rationale - they have to choose one customer to disappoint and will probably choose the one being abusive to their workers.

Also tends to deflate the rude customer.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#627

Post by AussieWog93 » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

ahallock wrote: post #612

jackson1442 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a business can’t afford to pay its employees enough make rent and buy groceries, perhaps it shouldn’t be a business?

In high school, I worked at a fast food joint to make a little extra money. There were no expectations to pay rent or other essentials. But you'll say that it's not kids working these jobs, so we need to provide a livable wage. What about getting these people skills for better jobs? I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career.

>I'd rather attack that problem than make Wendy's sandwich maker a viable career.

Why shouldn't Sandwich Maker be a viable career? They definitely contribute more to society than HR professionals or agile coaches.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#628

Post by dimal » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

ericbarrett wrote: post #73

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in…

Twitter behavior is leaking into the real world.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#629

Post by throwawayboise » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #494

bsder wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a false dichotomy, because those people can go and do something else. That is not automatically guaranteed. Part of the problem with the Western economies is that the mills/mines/etc. used to employ a LOT of people. A good example is the Natrona Heights steel plant. It used to employ something like 10,000 people at its height. After automation, it will now employ a couple hundred. Where do 9,500 people switc…

This is why we need to get past the idea that everyone needs to work to earn a living. Why does anyone need to earn the right to live? Our society has enough empty homes to house the homeless, and throws away enough food to feed the hungry. Why are people still homeless and hungry then? Take your example of the steel plant. Presumably when the 9500 people were laid off, productivity remained the same (or increased) a…

There wasn't extra profit because all the mills automated and they are all competing with each other. If expenses were lower, one would cut prices to gain a market advantage, others would follow until the price reached its floor.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#630

Post by Datsundere » Wed, Jul 21, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

jackson1442 wrote: post #601

josephcsible wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that businesses stubbornly refuse to raise wages - it's that they can't afford to. A lot of local small businesses were barely staying afloat even before March 2020.

If a business can’t afford to pay its employees enough make rent and buy groceries, perhaps it shouldn’t be a business?

The current labor shortage is purely because of the unemployment and covid benefits and being paid out to people. Why work when you get to stay home and get money doing nothing?