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Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

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101–110 of 251 posts

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#101

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this? We l…

Please don't include passive grubbing for upvotes as a preface to your comments. If you have something to say, even if it's controversial, have the courage to say it plainly without projecting anxiety about karma (of all things).

It's insulting by implication to the community here that expressing a contrary but constructive and well-written opinion would get you "massively down voted." For the most part, other readers can differentiate between constructive comments they disagree with and spammers, griefers, trolls, crapflooders, and trivial one-liners.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#102

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this? We l…

> We leave the economics to the economists, the physics to the physicists, and the medicine to the doctors.

But we don't really. Are economists deciding if the U.S. will default in less than two weeks?

They can't even come to a conclusion on climate change.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#103
post #93
post #71

"it's entirely unacceptable to break into websites and commit unlawful acts" This is quite the hypocritical statement coming from the FBI. As far as I can tell, the only difference between Anonymous, Lulzsec, and the FBI is that the FBI act by executive fiat. I don't support Internet vigilanteism, but I also don't support the concept of the FBI as an untouchable force who are no longer held accountable by the public…

> "At this point, I'm not sure which one I find more scary." There will always be scofflaws and pranksters. Indeed for our way of life to be assured, they must be able to exist. The ever-growing reach of the military-espionage-industrial complex is the only real threat.

I have to find myself agreeing with this, the fact that these individuals (FBI members, govt agencies in general.) are funded beyond the means of normal individuals and given resources that money can't buy. (well I'm sure enough of it can.) Gives them an edge that many people can't fight against. They can do whatever they want with impunity. Now I can't say that opening up a server and releasing all it's users passwords is right, or fair, but there comes a time in war where there must be casualties. In this war of Anon VS govt/corp, Anonymous must use unfair tactics, if only to level out the playing field.

That all said, this all reeks of a cold civil war, maybe something will come out of it, maybe nothing will. I'll just keep doing what I do, solving issues of non-freedom the way I can, one person at a time. A lot could be done if people just acted better towards each other. But I think right now that's too much to ask of us(humans).

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#104
post #99

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this? We l…

You forgot to mention that we should leave voting to the politicians :P

I know that's meant to be satirical, but it kind of derides the examples. Economists vote mostly based on their economic views, stem-cell researchers on stem-cell related views, and low-income families on social security. I just mean, leave specialized tasks to the specialists.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#105

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this? We l…

Please don't include passive grubbing for upvotes as a preface to your comments. If you have something to say, even if it's controversial, have the courage to say it plainly without projecting anxiety about karma (of all things). It's insulting by implication to the community here that expressing a contrary but constructive and well-written opinion would get you "massively down voted." For the most part, other reader…

Wasn't the intention. Edited out.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rest assured that it won't be the guardian. Charles Arthur, their useless tech editor, has recently been on the end of a torrent of spite from topiary, who writes the lulzsec press releases, likely including this one. http://twitter.com/#!/atopiary EDIT: apparently sabu has been joining in as well. Pretty amusing.

Clicked expecting atopiary/sabu to be juvenile and Charles Arthur to be possibly clueless but professional, but it's actually hard to tell which side in those exchanges is more juvenile.

You can read the whole thread on one page here:

http://twitter.theinfo.org/93969411270123520

Considering he's technology editor, he just let himself get trolled HARD.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#107

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this? We l…

Leaving medicine to doctors is not the same as leaving politics to politicians. One has far stricter requirements than the other. Not everybody can become a doctor. But almost anybody, from teachers to movie stars, can run for politics. There's also the issue of transparency and size of influence. A malpracticing doctor affects his patients and can be sent to prison. A corrupt government affects the entire country, but it's considerably harder to send people that make laws to prison.

Getting incompetent people fired may replace them with a less experienced, but more competent person. I'd value competency over experience.

Leaking information is the only way to justify hacking into the servers. There's no point of hacking in if you're not going to allow the public to see if the government is doing any underhanded actions.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#108
post #95

I think there is room for illegal activities in the name of a free and open society. If this is truly the author's goal, however, they need to stop associating with LulzSec. There was nothing noble about 9/10's of the crap lulzsec did, and the somewhat decent stuff they did was undercut by the whole "for the lulz" philosophy. If you really are fighting for freedom, you need to be better than DDS'ing game servers, bec…

>If this is truly the author's goal, however, they need to stop associating with LulzSec. In principle, I agree. The 'internet privacy' movement would be better served if the people who supported it differentiated themselves from the people who are just fucking around. I think a lot of them realize this. The question "why don't they" has its answer in the dark catacombs of the human psyche. LulzSec and Anonymous draw…

I guess that's the anthropic answer to the "in principle I support them, but there are better ways to do what they're doing" argument: There are people out there trying all the other ways, but the lulzsec way is the one that's getting attention and results right now.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#109
post #102

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this? We l…

> We leave the economics to the economists, the physics to the physicists, and the medicine to the doctors. But we don't really. Are economists deciding if the U.S. will default in less than two weeks? They can't even come to a conclusion on climate change.

> They can't even come to a conclusion on climate change.

Who? Economists? Well, when the spectrum of climate change policies range from doing nothing to geo-engineering or reverting the economy to a time when there was mass poverty, disease and starvation, and given that warming predictions haven't panned out, I'm grateful economists haven't concluded anything.

Re: Anonymous & Lulz Security Statement to the FBI

#110

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this? We l…

>At one point or another, this argument for civil liberties gets repetitive and overblown. No one I know has ever felt like their freedoms were at stake

Really? Make that one person, but there are surely more.

>Who are we to judge corruption, and what sources of information do we really have?

Who are a bunch of flawed humans to judge anything? Physics operates on a totally open system of merit. Economics as well. Doctors are directly responsible to reality. These are sciences. Government is not a science, and it is an intention of the system that the people should be able to evaluate it. From The Federalist #51:

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

Incidentally, we do not "leave medicine to the doctors" in any realistic sense -- there are numerous byzantine legal controls on the medical profession, such as, for example, the FDA. To "leave medicine to the doctors" would be to abolish the FDA, medical malpractice litigation, patient privacy laws, etc.

>Hacking into their servers, getting people fired (and therefore replacing them with less experienced people), and leaking sensitive information so the uneducated public can get their opinions in, is -NOT- going to solve anything. At all. Ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers

Ultimately, experience is not a guarantee of competence or even a strong indicator in most fields, be it physics or government. Programming is a notable exception.

>I don't agree with a lot of the things that various government organizations are allegedly doing either. However, I also understand that I probably don't have all the facts. I also know that even if I had all the facts, I would probably not commit much time to analyzing all of them, in order to make a sound decision on the best course of action. Why don't other people realize this?

I realize it about you, specifically. Would you argue that because of their positions, the heads of the DEA and TSA are necessarily more competent than the vast number of medical, legal, and security experts who argue that their actions are often unnecessary and unjustified? There are people outside the government capable -- perhaps superbly so -- of analyzing the merit of government action.

It is also somewhat if not extremely naive to assume that government officials make decisions from a competent and ethical stance, and that "mistakes" are indeed a result of circumstances rather than malice or neglect. Is it naive to assume a majority of legislators are corrupt? It doesn't matter -- it is possible to look at the evidence, so assumptions are largely unnecessary. When a serious Presidential contender argues that Paul Revere rode to "warn the British", the legitimacy of government can scarcely be assumed.

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