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Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

texastribune.org

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Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#71

Post by lumberingjack »

procgen wrote: post #33
post_break wrote: post #19

This helps eliminate a victimless crime. The criminals will still carry illegally and this bill actually upgrades the felony for those who are caught carrying who legally could not. Now someone who needs to carry who can't afford the overpriced classes, fingerprints, waiting for the state to mail you a card to give you your rights is gone. A lot of poor people need to carry a gun for protection, and either cant affor…

"A lot of poor people need to carry a gun for protection" How utterly dystopian.

"The city block corner is always the poor man's bar and always will be"

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#72

Post by jfengel »

krapp wrote: post #61
orwin wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Don't carry a gun if you're not ready to draw it, don't draw a gun if you're not ready to shoot. " -Every gun instructor ever. The issue is if someone wnat to jump on you and you have a gun, especially with no training, you'll be more dangerous to yourself than anyone wanting your wallet. I got robbed three time, because i was in the situation you describe (no money so have to live in high crime area, no car, and o…

I mean, the Second Amendment doesn't come with restrictions, requirements or qualifiers, and American gun culture is the reason owning a gun is seen as an unrestricted, inalienable right, and not a responsibility. This is what the people of Texas want, let them get it good and hard, I say.

I mean, the Second Amendment doesn't come with restrictions, requirements or qualifiers

I mean... it does. It's right there, in the first dozen words.

It's confusingly written, and the Supreme Court has decided it doesn't mean anything at all. But it seems weird to pretend that it just doesn't exist.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#73

Post by chmod600 »

igetspam wrote: post #68
chmod600 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is specifically about lawful carrying, not ownership. Criminals generally don't care whether carrying is lawful or not, so you wouldn't expect this particular law to matter a lot. There just aren't a lot of cases where someone without any criminal intent carrying a gun all of a sudden gets mad and starts shooting people over an insult or something. You are kind of right that the sheer volume of guns in t…

www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/26/gda-texas-mass-shootings-rise-in-2020-data-reports/115506570/ Were they criminals before they shot everyone? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-women-shot-in-secon... I haven't heard that any of the suspects in the two events on 6th street were carrying illegally or were already criminals (they could have been). We seem killing more people here in TX already. Letting more…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr...

California and Texas have similar homicide rates: 4.3 vs 4.9. Both numbers are low in the sense that homicide isn't something you should be afraid of in either state, unless you are in a specifically risky place or situation.

And regarding your anecdotes, it's doubtful to me that a law would prevent many of those people from carrying a gun. Maybe some, but nothing that would show much signal in aggregate data.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#74

Post by oliwarner »

torstenvl wrote: post #64
oliwarner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bleak that people think the solution to violent lawlessness is more guns , more violence. Now in the hands of untrained civilians. Normally you could say their unadulterated freedom allows them to commit accidents, but that's hard to swallow when you've just said the poor are desperate and without sufficient support from law enforcement. That's not freedom.

Um. Yes. Giving people more options to live their lives as they see fit, rather than forcing them to rely on the benevolence of a government, is indeed freedom. By definition. Please don't post in bad faith.

People living in places where they feel they need a gun, can't afford the lessons aren't empowered by this, they're a hostage to poverty and undercontrolled crime. Any rational person of means would move away. All they can do is pick up a gun and hope it isn't stolen and used on them.

Law enforcement isn't governmental benevolence, it's the foundation of society that stops people violently taking everything you have. Life without fear gives people options. Fund effective policing and social programmes (which directly and demonstrably improve L&O outcomes), education, get [all] guns off the streets.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#75

Post by taylodl »

post_break wrote: post #19

This helps eliminate a victimless crime. The criminals will still carry illegally and this bill actually upgrades the felony for those who are caught carrying who legally could not. Now someone who needs to carry who can't afford the overpriced classes, fingerprints, waiting for the state to mail you a card to give you your rights is gone. A lot of poor people need to carry a gun for protection, and either cant affor…

> "Now someone who needs to carry who can't afford the overpriced classes, fingerprints, waiting for the state to mail you a card to give you your rights is gone. A lot of poor people need to carry a gun for protection, and either cant afford the other hurdles, or just can't make time to jump through all the hoops."

The same could be said for voting. Interesting that Texas went the exact opposite direction in that regard.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#76

Post by Grakel »

oliwarner wrote: post #74
torstenvl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um. Yes. Giving people more options to live their lives as they see fit, rather than forcing them to rely on the benevolence of a government, is indeed freedom. By definition. Please don't post in bad faith.

People living in places where they feel they need a gun, can't afford the lessons aren't empowered by this, they're a hostage to poverty and undercontrolled crime. Any rational person of means would move away. All they can do is pick up a gun and hope it isn't stolen and used on them. Law enforcement isn't governmental benevolence, it's the foundation of society that stops people violently taking everything you have.…

The supreme court has decided that the police have no obligation to interrupt a crime or protect you from violence, only to investigate afterwards. Even if they decide to, they're minutes or sometimes hours away.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#77

Post by _nicelaris_ »

Grakel wrote: post #52
slashdev wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to go further down a tangent here, but you also see how little Americans trust their government in the number of people reluctant to get vaccinated and the number of people who seriously believe the election was stolen. Both of those examples are mostly right leaning people. But this is also the same group that's most interested in gun rights. Is there similar distrust for the government on the left, if…

Wanting to defund the police? Having this opinion and at the same time wanting to ban guns is truly puzzling.

It's not puzzling if you realize that the motivation is to subvert a society and assert control over it.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#79

Post by oliwarner »

chmod600 wrote: post #73
igetspam wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

www.statesman.com/story/news/2021/02/26/gda-texas-mass-shootings-rise-in-2020-data-reports/115506570/ Were they criminals before they shot everyone? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/two-women-shot-in-secon... I haven't heard that any of the suspects in the two events on 6th street were carrying illegally or were already criminals (they could have been). We seem killing more people here in TX already. Letting more…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr... California and Texas have similar homicide rates: 4.3 vs 4.9. Both numbers are low in the sense that homicide isn't something you should be afraid of in either state, unless you are in a specifically risky place or situation. And regarding your anecdotes, it's doubtful to me that a law would prevent many of those people from carrying a gun. Maybe some, b…

That's where the similarities end though.

CA has a much poorer population at the bottom end, the price of living is 70% higher, multiple-point higher unemployment, less space, lower education outcomes, etc, etc, etc.

CA's problems are not TX's problems.

Re: Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1

#80

Post by oliwarner »

Grakel wrote: post #76
oliwarner wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People living in places where they feel they need a gun, can't afford the lessons aren't empowered by this, they're a hostage to poverty and undercontrolled crime. Any rational person of means would move away. All they can do is pick up a gun and hope it isn't stolen and used on them. Law enforcement isn't governmental benevolence, it's the foundation of society that stops people violently taking everything you have.…

The supreme court has decided that the police have no obligation to interrupt a crime or protect you from violence, only to investigate afterwards. Even if they decide to, they're minutes or sometimes hours away.

> The supreme court has decided

We shouldn't give up on progress because of how five judges read a bit of old parchment. I'm talking about societal aims, and of course, they're just my opinion.

We should want to decrease crime, not just shoot at it. That's not just education, drug rehab, it's a solid police presence and community engagement. A world where the top earning 10% still interact with the bottom earning 10%. We keep moving in the wrong direction.

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