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Our lawsuit against ChessBase

stockfishchess.org

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Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#141
post #132

Fat Fritz 2 is distributed in the Steam Store [1], which is under US jurisdiction. Should not this be a good use for DMCA take down? [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1587750/Fat_Fritz_20_SE/

If a game gets DMCA’d, can the players who bought it still continue playing?

They'll probably get a refund like with that unlicensed 1984 ebook incident.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#142
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it's settled law on whether or not you need to license to use code...

Isn't it normally the case that you need a license to use software products made by other people? Like, if I ran Windows on a server and Microsoft revoked my license. Surely that's tested in a court at some point?

It's not settled law, but IMO probably not, I don't believe it's ever been tested in court.

Windows comes with a click-wrap contract that you agree to when you install it, that restricts certain things you could usually do. So it's a bit of a bad example... but I'll use it anyways.

What does (generally, not legal advice, not a lawyer) need a license is making a copy of the software, i.e. installing windows onto your computer actually makes a copy, or making a copy of the installer for your friend - makes a copy. Just booting up the machine that already has windows installed on, that's (probably) not copyright infringement even if you don't have a valid license. It might be breach of contract depending on what contracts you have agreed to though! Physically giving your friend the computer with windows already installed on it, is similarly not copyright infringement. Cloning the hard-drive so you now have two hard-drives with windows installed, that's copyright infringement.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#143
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they've revoked even Chessbase's license to use the code. So, not like a book, where if you have the physical copy you can generally read it, but more like a pirated copy of Windows or Oracle, where you owe license fees per user, per core, per day.

> So, not like a book, where if you have the physical copy you can generally read it So like an ebook then. We don't have a good distinction in English between a) medium-length arrangement of words and punctuation and b) book.

Document

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#144
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For distributing it, making copies of it, and violating contacts, definitely. For using a program already on a computer with no click through contract that you agree to to run it (or other contractual obligation), I'm not aware of any cases. That they can sue is a non statement, you can sue for anything, but I don't believe it is obviously (or even likely) copyright infringement...

To be clear, it would be ChessBase that would be sued, not individual users. And ChessBase would be the one allegedly in violation of "distributing it, making copies of it, and violating contracts". Since their license to use Stockfish seems to be revoked, it seems like it would fall under copyright infringement at that point (although up to the courts to decide, of course).

Certainly, I'm just responding to "So, not like a book, where if you have the physical copy you can generally read it"

As far as I know it is like a book, if you have a copy you can read (execute) it, you just can't make new copies for your customers.

Whether or not that helps ChessBase... well... ya...

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In German court proceedings you can only recover attorney fees up to the (pretty low) legal fee schedule (RVG). Anything above that you will have to pay yourselves

GP’s joke, I suspect, was that in practice every bit of money they get from the lawsuit, whether it is labeled “attorney fees” or not, is likely to go towards compensating the legal team, and not to the actual injured party. Which does not contradict your statement. (Part of the point of having a legal fee schedule is, I suppose, to put a damper on the prices of legal help, because, like in medicine, the demand is ot…

The German legal system does put somewhat of a damper on "every bit of money". First, it can only be charged as attorney fees, and if it exceeds the legal schedule, it needs to be very clearly called out as an attorney fee agreement. So "or not" is off the table.

Secondly, there is a morality clause with regards to attorney fees, so usurious rates like some US attorneys charge are harder to achieve.

This doesn't mean German attorneys are cheap. It's just not quite as out of control as the US legal system. (Though attorney's professional bodies are obviously lobbying to make it easier to charge more)

The legal fee schedule does put a damper on attorney work, and more importantly, makes it somewhat easier to predict costs should you need an attorney. If it's enough of a damper is open to interpretation. I

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#147

Fat Fritz 2 is distributed in the Steam Store [1], which is under US jurisdiction. Should not this be a good use for DMCA take down? [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1587750/Fat_Fritz_20_SE/

> Fat Fritz 2* engine with a massive new neural network

Ah yes, the $80 Stockfish engine.

Re: Our lawsuit against ChessBase

#149

Fat Fritz 2 is distributed in the Steam Store [1], which is under US jurisdiction. Should not this be a good use for DMCA take down? [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1587750/Fat_Fritz_20_SE/

Never heard of ChessBase or the game before, but interesting choice on them to copy the Microsoft Word look and feel for their game haha.
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