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EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

bbc.com

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Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#61

Post by BitwiseFool »

chippiewill wrote: post #45
BitwiseFool wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me paranoid but I think governments of the 21st century ultimately want the ability to track every single transaction they can.

If you're worried about that then Bitcoin isn't for you. It's not just Governments, anyone can see _every_ transaction as it's in the public ledger.

I'm aware that full ledger visibility is a fundamental part of Bitcoin. I'm actually more concerned that the governments and central banks of the world will push for near total traceability with their own currencies. Whether that comes in the form of "GovCoins" or reporting requirements, I do not know. But I think it is practically inevitable.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#62

Post by gruez »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #17
gruez wrote: post #6

>The new rules would also prohibit providing anonymous crypto-asset wallets. As a business/service, or in general? If the latter, then it's literally a ban on cryptography.

You're already not allowed to move undeclared cash across borders, not sure why you can't have a rule that you can't have undeclared crypto wallets. That does not ban cryptography, that just forces people to declare their wallets.

> You're already not allowed to move undeclared cash across borders

Right, because it's generally recognized that countries have the right to protect their borders

> not sure why you can't have a rule that you can't have undeclared crypto wallets

Are you exempt from this if you don't make cross-border transactions? Would it be constitutional for the EU to make a rule that you can't have undeclared cash wallets?

> That does not ban cryptography, that just forces people to declare their wallets.

In the strict sense you're correct. However, I would counter with saying that this isn't a "ban on cryptography" in the same sense recent proposals for key escrow (eg. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/as-doj-calls-for...) isn't "a ban on cryptopgrahy". However, the end result is the same: you won't be allowed to practice cryptography unless you also give up your secrets to the government.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#63

Post by stavros »

delaaxe wrote: post #50
Trias11 wrote: post #10

That's why the move to decentralized everything. This total control nonsense will eventually end and these dinosaur idiots will stuck with their own destructive ideas

Decentralize everything = make all your transactions visible by anyone

Except this is completely untrue, since there are private cryptocurrencies you can use.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#64

Post by xtracto »

yellow_lead wrote: post #47

> The new rules would also prohibit providing anonymous crypto-asset wallets. When you drill this down, it seems they are really outlawing certain math.

Don't know why you are being downvoted, this is the same case as DeCSS and and AACS. A "crypto wallet" is nothing but a public/private key pair. So... will SSH keys be banned? will sharing a SSH public key be banned? will sharing a program that transforms a public SSH key into a "wallet address" be banned?

The premise is stupid.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#65

Post by elmo2you »

delaaxe wrote: post #50
Trias11 wrote: post #10

That's why the move to decentralized everything. This total control nonsense will eventually end and these dinosaur idiots will stuck with their own destructive ideas

Decentralize everything = make all your transactions visible by anyone

That is actually a surprisingly simple yet fundamentally true summation. Thank you.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#67

Post by stavros »

ushakov wrote: post #49
sergiomattei wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm shocked how naive the DeFi industry was to think they could get away with little to no regulation. Tech doesn't rule the world. Old power structures are still in place.

DeFi was built with censorship resistance in mind EU can come up with new laws all day every day, but considering the technical detail, these laws will be impossible to enforce

The laws will be trivial to enforce. Expect to be unable to exchange cryptocurrency (that you own in your wallet) to fiat, which will almost kill the cryptocurrency market for anything other than speculation.

I expect a parallel, dark economy will still be around, where people transact with cryptocurrency and can only exchange it for cash.

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#68

Post by elmo2you »

stavros wrote: post #63
delaaxe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralize everything = make all your transactions visible by anyone

Except this is completely untrue, since there are private cryptocurrencies you can use.

How private are those then? Isn't it true that at least everything is visible to at least all participants?

EDIT: in other words, my question is actually whether your claim has relevance, considering how most crypto currencies aim to be public (or that's at least my impression).

Re: EU plans to make Bitcoin transfers more traceable

#70

Post by [deleted] »

gambiting wrote: post #33
thomasahle wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash mostly isn't allowed today, if you are transferring large enough sums of money. Probably for the better.

Source of such bold claim? You can absolutely pay cash for (almost) anything. Even if you're buying a house, you can pay cash if both sides agree to it, and the solicitors check everything is legit and you can prove where you got the money from - but there is completely nothing in law that would prohibit such transaction from happening.

[deleted]
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