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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#391

Post by rdtsc »

salemh wrote: post #231
icybox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alan Watts used to say "When you've received the message, hang up the phone."

A former student of Alan Watts, then a Taoist monk, found Orthodox Christianity after his searching, and has become a revered Priestmonk across the Orthodox world - he offers his own journey and offers the Eastern Orthodox Christian perspective of seeking God and His revelation. https://orthochristian.com/81732.html https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/father_... >The impersonal concept of deity was a…

Thanks for sharing, lots of good references and well written.

I especially like the one from Florovsky. I'd just like to leave a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm for those who may be wondering what this is all about.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#392

Post by cs2733 »

avalys wrote: post #387

This thread is blowing my mind, although not for the obvious reason. I’m just astounded by all the anecdotes people are mentioning here that suggest meditation, mindfulness, etc. actually work , even the secularized, distorted, popularized versions we get here in the West. Previously I just assumed this was all a bunch of wackadoo woo-woo bullshit designed to separate dissatisfied California yuppies from their money.…

Ha! I salute your openess.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#393

Post by [deleted] »

avalys wrote: post #387

This thread is blowing my mind, although not for the obvious reason. I’m just astounded by all the anecdotes people are mentioning here that suggest meditation, mindfulness, etc. actually work , even the secularized, distorted, popularized versions we get here in the West. Previously I just assumed this was all a bunch of wackadoo woo-woo bullshit designed to separate dissatisfied California yuppies from their money.…

[deleted]

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#394

Post by thevardanian »

mcguire wrote: post #381

In the midst of all of the "You're just doing Buddhism wrong!" comments, I would like to point out the PLOS One paper mentioned in the article, "The varieties of contemplative experience: A mixed-methods study of meditation-related challenges in Western Buddhists" ( https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... ). " In one of the only prospective studies to use qualitative methods to deliberately as…

I mean... That's exactly what the "you're just doing Buddhism wrong" crowd is saying.

There's a vast variety of methodologies and approaches to meditation, that come with their own effects, some bad some good. This is all quite well documented among the practitioners over the centuries. And beyond documentation, that's also why it's heavily suggested that one have guru or someone to actively guide and judge "progress", at least among the Hindus.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#395

Post by lazide »

mtalantikite wrote: post #280
sjayasinghe wrote: post #242

I interpret the author’s difficulties and frustration as a byproduct of a particular misapprehension of Buddhist teachings in modern society. Many modern-day practitioners, both in the east and the west, are under the impression that simply by mechanically practicing mindfulness meditation they will eventually reach a state of enlightenment. Unfortunately, this is a misunderstanding that the Buddha himself addressed…

Came here to say something similar. When I was about 20 some close friends of mine started practicing (and eventually ordained) with the American Theravadin monk Thanissaro Bhikkhu, which got my meditation practice started. Unfortunately I made the mistake of doing a lot of sitting and not a lot of learning of the Buddha's teachings at that time, other than reading some Pali translations and listening to Thanissaro B…

Amen (hah) - I doubt (up until recently with these getting more visibility) it was ever a problem enough that retreats are screening for this.

Additionally, retreats taught in 'weight loss' fashion are only going to make this worse, as there may be no one with a comprehensive grounding or experience even present on the retreat.

This is one area where years of experience (and depth) and accuracy/correctness matter a lot. Which is hard. And expensive. And hard to scale.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#396

Post by beprogrammed »

mapcars wrote: post #55
nabla9 wrote: post #26

(background: I have been doing zen meditation for 20 years. Several hours per day and participated in 50 intensive retreats or so). Absolutely. If you meditate so much that it starts to work, it's like any effective medicine or treatment. It has potential for adversarial side effects. Even mentally healthy people get into some crazy states and can experience meltdowns while meditating. I have seen several cases of pe…

>Many things that are worth doing and give meaning to life are not safe. That sounds wrong to me, meditation is supposed to destroy all meanings of life, not to give anything. Also doing or not doing anything at all is not safe. There is no safety - once we are alive we will die.

He was born, succeeded in living a meaningless life, and died.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#397

Post by lazide »

crazydoggers wrote: post #293
sjayasinghe wrote: post #242

I interpret the author’s difficulties and frustration as a byproduct of a particular misapprehension of Buddhist teachings in modern society. Many modern-day practitioners, both in the east and the west, are under the impression that simply by mechanically practicing mindfulness meditation they will eventually reach a state of enlightenment. Unfortunately, this is a misunderstanding that the Buddha himself addressed…

> I interpret the author’s difficulties and frustration as a byproduct of a particular misapprehension of Buddhist teachings in modern society. I interpret his difficulties as an experience of how the brain is an organ and has physiological responses we’re not often prepared for. Most people would agree that going on a retreat where you run 20 miles a day would have adverse consequences for your body. Yet the same ki…

The brain as an organ analogy doesn't also reflect the self-reflective, self-influencing, learning side of it well.

A kidney doesn't remember the last time someone abused it and react reflexively when they see that person. It also doesn't tend to go into tight loops of racing thoughts about that person randomly either.

If you treat it like it is a simple organ (x thing happens, give drug y), it can lead to some really toxic long term effects with avoidance of environmental or self regulatory issues, lack of awareness of what is going on and how to correct it, etc. I've seen it personally, and lost friends and loved ones to the effects a naive 'medical' approach can have.

The reality, near as we can tell, is the brain is an organ, that in ways we don't understand is also part of what we call 'self', which is also part of the system of our body, which is also part of larger systems that we interact with and influence us.

I don't know of any monks that, if you broke a leg, would say 'Meditate and your leg will be healed'. Most monks, if you had not yet gone to a Doctor to have it fixed, would ask you something along the lines of 'How can I help you?' to help you see the need and get you there, or ask you to sit with them so you could see the need yourself.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#398

Post by avalys »

avalys wrote: post #387

This thread is blowing my mind, although not for the obvious reason. I’m just astounded by all the anecdotes people are mentioning here that suggest meditation, mindfulness, etc. actually work , even the secularized, distorted, popularized versions we get here in the West. Previously I just assumed this was all a bunch of wackadoo woo-woo bullshit designed to separate dissatisfied California yuppies from their money.…

This article might as well have said “The Shenrikki school of telekinesis is popular, but if you’re not careful while practicing you might accidentally crack the foundation of your house or give your spouse a concussion, and no one will warn you about this. ” and then a bunch of people jumped into the thread to say “Yes yes, this happened to me, and my home insurance didn’t cover it!”

My reaction is: wait, what, really, this is an actual risk here?!

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#400

Post by seanc »

avalys wrote: post #398
avalys wrote: post #387

This thread is blowing my mind, although not for the obvious reason. I’m just astounded by all the anecdotes people are mentioning here that suggest meditation, mindfulness, etc. actually work , even the secularized, distorted, popularized versions we get here in the West. Previously I just assumed this was all a bunch of wackadoo woo-woo bullshit designed to separate dissatisfied California yuppies from their money.…

This article might as well have said “The Shenrikki school of telekinesis is popular, but if you’re not careful while practicing you might accidentally crack the foundation of your house or give your spouse a concussion, and no one will warn you about this. ” and then a bunch of people jumped into the thread to say “Yes yes, this happened to me, and my home insurance didn’t cover it!” My reaction is: wait, what, real…

I forget where I heard it, but someone once said "The mind is like a boomerang. If you throw it, there is a very good chance it won't come back."
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