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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years doesn't really mean much by itself. If I incorrectly practice guitar for 10 years, I'll have experience of practicing the guitar incorrectly, and maybe RSI/health issues from not learning correct posture, etc. There is no rule that I'll actually get "good" at guitar by practicing that way. "that 's being taught and lauded so much as a panacea" Lauded by whom? And exactly? Buddhism? Meditation? Those are very…

But the point stands, if the most popular method of teaching guitar is wrong and can lead to serious injury then potential students need to be aware of the risks.

This is the key takeaway.

This guy didn't do anything that the majority of meditators in the West aren't doing. Taking such a serious piece of advice from a book by some random guy (who seems like a nutjob) is a particularly foolish thing to do but the authors mindset that led him to that decision isn't an outlier. To recap he

- Had no teacher

- Mix and matched various concepts and techniques from different traditions that he inevitably had a poor / loose understanding of

- Had a drug and alcohol problem

- Trained an intense schedule for years

And when he got himself into a bind none of the teachers he went to could help him out because they are all doing the same thing, more or less, minus the drugs and alcohol.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#312
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've frequently seen "Buddhism" adopted by westerners from a secular or Judeo/Christian background and treated as though it's some sort of feel-good practice which lets them feel vaguely superior to other religions without any serious changes in beliefs or practices. I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians h…

I'm confused by this comment. Do you mean to say that Buddhists ought to engage in religious flame wars? FWIW, Buddhism is fairly centered on self-improvement, with idolatry being generally seen as respectful reverence, or at worst as lucky charms. I don't see the problem in taking just the teachings of a belief system while ignoring the idolatry aspect. In fact, some western takes on religion could use less idolatry…

"Do you mean to say that Buddhists ought to engage in religious flame wars?"

We have engaged in far worse than flame wars. Buddhists have fought in actual wars at various points of history and done other not so great things. For example, D.T. Suzuki is known for his writing on Zen Buddhism but he was also something of a right-wing nationalist.

I think GP is advocating that we approach Buddhism in its whole form rather than just the bits and pieces we are most comfortable with.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#313
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've frequently seen "Buddhism" adopted by westerners from a secular or Judeo/Christian background and treated as though it's some sort of feel-good practice which lets them feel vaguely superior to other religions without any serious changes in beliefs or practices. I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians h…

I'm confused by this comment. Do you mean to say that Buddhists ought to engage in religious flame wars? FWIW, Buddhism is fairly centered on self-improvement, with idolatry being generally seen as respectful reverence, or at worst as lucky charms. I don't see the problem in taking just the teachings of a belief system while ignoring the idolatry aspect. In fact, some western takes on religion could use less idolatry…

I think it is pure ignorance to call Buddhism a "philosophy rather than a religion" and sneer at idols. You might as well sneer at a display where a round, black-and-white ball is called a 'football'. It shows a complete lack of knowledge about any form of Buddhism practiced anywhere outside of your little world view

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#314
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One take I heard about yoga that kinda applies here is "if yoga is injuring you, your understanding of it is wrong" I think the underlying issue with all these asian-spiritualism-turned-western-nouveau-health is that western people sometimes come in wanting things to be intense, clinical and goal-oriented. But that's literally the opposite of what most of what these disciplines are all about. Asian health upkeep prac…

if yoga is injuring you, your understanding of it is wrong That feels a lot like either victim blaming, or being fed a No True Scotsman truism and accepting it. One could say the same thing about staying within their skill level for any high-risk adventure sport. "If that advanced ski course is injuring you ...."

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#315

Since this is a long article, here’s a summary for fellow readers — it’s mostly about the negative side effects of meditation that the author believes is under-documented or under-reported due to the ‘hype’ of meditation as the 21st century cure-all. He talks about dissociative experiences (which is well documented in medical research), it being a pseudo-religion, and lastly, his belief that the extended use of medit…

> it’s mostly about the negative side effects of meditation that the author believes is under-documented or under-reported

Before this article, I didn't know meditation could have any adverse effect. Until today, I haven' read a single depiction, a single mention of meditation going wrong. Except in fictions.

So this claim that one does not simply learn about the negative side effects of meditation sounds very plausible to me.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#316

Kundalini syndrome. Not great. Widely written about but you need to know where to look. Gopi Krishna is probably the most widely known case, but you only have to peruse Reddit's Kundalini subs for more. That's my issue with all this mindfulness stuff. A load of Westerners ripped the guts out of practices to shed the "dogma". But that "religion" they chucked out was the result of generations of people interpreting the…

Whenever I read about a novice practitioner having a Kundalini experience, I wonder how experienced the retreat host(s) are. Or if the person had a mentor with sufficient experience.

While there are many spiritual interpretations, there is also practical advice online for recovering. Walking outside (experiencing nature) is commonly suggested.

Accidentally stumbling into this disorienting experience could be (and in the case of this author, was) traumatic.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've frequently seen "Buddhism" adopted by westerners from a secular or Judeo/Christian background and treated as though it's some sort of feel-good practice which lets them feel vaguely superior to other religions without any serious changes in beliefs or practices. I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians h…

Why villainize the "white American", portraying them as "knowing better"? Yes, the mischaracterization of Buddhism is disrespectful, but it comes from ignorance, not malice.

How can you pick and choose without on some level being aware of what you are excluding?

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've frequently seen "Buddhism" adopted by westerners from a secular or Judeo/Christian background and treated as though it's some sort of feel-good practice which lets them feel vaguely superior to other religions without any serious changes in beliefs or practices. I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians h…

Why villainize the "white American", portraying them as "knowing better"? Yes, the mischaracterization of Buddhism is disrespectful, but it comes from ignorance, not malice.

It is ignorance that borders on arrogance. They must know that Buddhism is over two thousand years old. They must know that it is central to many cultures all over the world. Yet they somehow are confident that their way is the 'right' way.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#319

I interpret the author’s difficulties and frustration as a byproduct of a particular misapprehension of Buddhist teachings in modern society. Many modern-day practitioners, both in the east and the west, are under the impression that simply by mechanically practicing mindfulness meditation they will eventually reach a state of enlightenment. Unfortunately, this is a misunderstanding that the Buddha himself addressed…

I've frequently seen "Buddhism" adopted by westerners from a secular or Judeo/Christian background and treated as though it's some sort of feel-good practice which lets them feel vaguely superior to other religions without any serious changes in beliefs or practices. I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians h…

"I saw a well regarded movie recently where the main characterized Buddhism as "a philosophy rather than a religion" which made it clear that no Asians had been involved in the making of that film."

Asians are as capable as anyone else at secularizing Buddhism (or of doing anything else, really).

Take the example of D T Suzuki[1] himself -- the man who is arguably more responsible than anyone else for bringing Buddhism to the West.

"In the mid-20th century, Japanese lay scholar D. T. Suzuki was instrumental in creating a Zen which would be acceptable to Westerners, a project undertaken to position post WWII Japan as a modern, powerful nation and its culture as refined and superior in the face of Western hegemony. Suzuki sought to remove Zen from its historical and cultural context and make it accessible and applicable to everyone. This extraction cut its ties to monks and monasteries, the precepts, sangha life, rituals and teachings, and set up instead the individual internal experience of awakening as the only reliable "truth." Positioning Zen as based on the truth of personal experience protected it from rejection as superstition or as a creation of a bewildered community. At the same time, it could not be replaced by science or rationalism because the awakening experience was said to be subjective and ineffable. It was beyond all the limitations of organized sects, cultural manifestations, or political exigencies. As Robert Sharf explains,"

"The notion of "pure Zen"--a pan-cultural religious experience unsullied by institutional, social, and historical contingencies--would be attractive precisely because it held out the possibility of an alternative to the godless and indifferent anomic universe bequeathed by the Western Enlightenment, yet demanded neither blind faith nor institutional allegiance. This reconstructed Zen offered an intellectually reputable escape from the epistemological anxiety of historicism and pluralism."[2]

"Several scholars have identified Suzuki as a Buddhist modernist... Buddhist modernist traditions often consist of a deliberate de-emphasis of the ritual and metaphysical elements of the religion, as these elements are seen as incommensurate with the discourses of modernity. Buddhist modernist traditions have also been characterized as being "detraditionalized," often being presented in a way that occludes their historical construction. Instead, Buddhist modernists often employ an essentialized description of their tradition, where key tenets are described as universal and sui generis. It was this form of Zen that has been popularized in the West... In his discussion of humanity and nature, Suzuki takes Zen literature out of its social, ritual, and ethical contexts and reframes it in terms of a language of metaphysics derived from German Romantic idealism, English romanticism, and American transcendentalism."[1]

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_T_Suzuki

[2] - https://ancientwayjournal.wordpress.com/2016/05/15/origins-o...

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown

#320

I interpret the author’s difficulties and frustration as a byproduct of a particular misapprehension of Buddhist teachings in modern society. Many modern-day practitioners, both in the east and the west, are under the impression that simply by mechanically practicing mindfulness meditation they will eventually reach a state of enlightenment. Unfortunately, this is a misunderstanding that the Buddha himself addressed…

The author wasn't ignorant: "I’m extremely knowledgeable of both Buddhist and secular frameworks of meditation, have read countless books on the subject."

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