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Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

blogs.bmj.com

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Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#431

Post by pc86 »

derbOac wrote: post #86
nextos wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are absolutely right. Furthermore, universities tend to require tons of publications to promote you. Things are spinning out of control. I know a few EU countries where the written norm is to need > 100 publications to qualify for a full professorship, with equally ridiculous requirements for associate and assistant positions. Obviously, this encourages and rewards completely broken practices. Many associate and…

One of the clearest examples of the publishing problem to me was the shift in meaning of last authors on papers over the course of my career. When I first started, last author meant the person who had contributed the least to the paper (in cases where ordering of effort can actually be determined -- often there's genuinely equal contributions). Often this was the senior faculty member, as they did little but sort of…

This seems a fantastic example of people caring a great deal because the stakes are so fantastically low.

Just list everyone alphabetically. Problem solved.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#432

Post by jjk166 »

krige wrote: post #336
mr_toad wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I agree that the institutions can be expected to cover there ass Should we have that expectation? If a person does it we call it concealing evidence, intimidation, and perverting the course of justice. On the other hand, if they confess right away, we treat them leniently. Why should institutions differ?

Because institutions are not individuals. They do not possess a conscience, morality, or any other humane emotion that makes leniency possible and produce favourable outcomes.

If you threaten to throw the CEO/President/Chairperson in jail the vast majority of organizations suddenly start acting like individuals.

Large systems are more than the sum of their parts, but not nearly as much as those parts want you to believe.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#433

Post by sjwalter »

tshaddox wrote: post #333
sjwalter wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative that I choose is to have a fucking identity and constantly build up strength along every axis possible, yes even physical. Be a rock. This doesn't mean be hard-headed and unpersuadable, but it also means not being lead around by statistics and citations and "studies". Know who you are, trust your instincts, and do what is right for you. The fact is, unless you're actually the scientist doing the scien…

> Know how to feed yourself and stay fit and healthy. Well, okay. I was kinda with you when you were saying you can ignore most health science headlines, but then you seem to change your mind and hint that there must be some way of gaining knowledge about one’s health without science. So how then? Common sense and personal experimentation are only going to get you so far.

Eat well. Sleep well. Exercise daily.

Are you seriously saying you can't figure out how to do these things without bullshit "studies"?

Get some weights. Ear high-quality meat. Sleep 8 hours. Tweak as necessary.

That gets 90% of people to ever-increasingly healthy.

You've been totally neutered if you think you need more than that.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#434

Post by tshaddox »

zepto wrote: post #427
tshaddox wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am asking for an example of when that happened.

It was very public news. Even the controversy was widely reported. I’m surprised you don’t know about it. In any case it should be easy to Google.

I think you are remembering incorrectly.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#435

Post by ErikVandeWater »

naasking wrote: post #406
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure I'm following your point. If you weigh the bad actors and financial incentives of climate change proponents against the bad actors and financial incentives on the fossil fuel side, do you think the scale tips in favour of more honesty for the fossil fuel side or climate change side? No one funds research into problems that aren't that big a deal. There has to be a crisis NOW for climate scientists to get m…

> No one funds research into problems that aren't that big a deal. That's false. Mundane, basic research gets funding all the time.

Hyperbole.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#436

Post by swayvil »

UnFleshedOne wrote: post #173
swayvil wrote: post #122

If lying is the more profitable course then you can trust that it's a lie. Is that capitalism? Is that what we're looking at here?

It's humans. You should look at how research was done in communist countries or anywhere with strong ideology. People are built to game systems.

Well we're also built to behave in accordance with what's "right" (moral etc).

So options are being weighed.

The "immoralizer" must not be "promise of profit" (unless you are a total lizard) but rather freedom from anxiety, promise of safety.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#437

Post by jahnu »

yarcob wrote: post #352
jahnu wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention almost all pharmacies selling homeopathic rubbish. I find this particularly irritating given the ridiculously regulations and control around things like buying paracetamol or ibuprofen.

What ridiculous regulations are there with regard to ibuprofen and paracetamol? Are you talking about the fact that medicines are not allowed to be sold in supermarkets? I think it's a good thing, since it's a pretty good guarantee that you actually get what you buy. You can get ibuprofen and paracetamol at any pharmacy in Austria for a few euros without a prescription. And in every district there's always a pharmacy…

Nah it's absolutely daft and just guild protectionism for things like paracetamol.

Fake or bad goods are not an issue in developed countries without these extreme rules.

But that's not my point. My point is that such extreme rules stand in stark contrast to the sale of snake oil.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#438

Post by Ajay-p »

Ajay-p wrote: post #98
dqpb wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be sued for asking questions?

IANAL but my gut tells me no, unless you're in a place like Russia, North Korea, China, most of the Middle East, parts of Africa and Latin America, and some parts of the former Soviet Bloc. In western nations, you might get arrested for asking questions if it upsets the powers that be and they deem you a nuisance.

Based on the discussions therein I can see where my thinking was not quite on point, or I did not explain myself properly. YES a question could be a a form of a hate crime, I can think of examples where asking someone a question that be interpreted (probably rightfully) as a hate crime. I was thinking more of non-hateful questions, such as questioning authority.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#439

Post by sjwalter »

tshaddox wrote: post #434
zepto wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was very public news. Even the controversy was widely reported. I’m surprised you don’t know about it. In any case it should be easy to Google.

I think you are remembering incorrectly.

This kind of gaslighting is why nobody trusts authority any more.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/protests-and-trump-r...

Just one of MANY stories why BLM protests are so much less risky than, e.g., Trump rallies.

When it was widely rebuked as hypocritical bullshit, they even came up with a crazy way of explaining it away: Now racism was a "public health crisis", all of a sudden. See the google trends: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=r...

Just like how January 6 was an insurrection worthy of months of security state theatrics and proclamations that "white supremacy" is the biggest threat to the USA domestically, whereas an entire summer of burning buildings and riots was "mostly peaceful protests".

This is why nobody trusts authority and the media anymore--they have given up on even a pretense of seeming trustworthy.

Re: Time to assume that health research is fraudulent until proven otherwise?

#440

Post by adminscoffee »

injidup wrote: post #20

I recently had the privilege of trying to do the right thing when I identified fraudulent research carried out by an institution in Austria. The initial response of the institution was positive but when I pressed for further details on how such things could happen suddenly nobody anymore would take my call. The research was paid for by a private company to pimp a nonsense product. The research was never published in…

this actually happens far to often with enough universities to make me uncomfortable. a lot of universities lack funding, even after government aid, which by the way influences what universities teach to a degree as well. i would love to see more transparency regarding funding with regards to scientific studies
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