Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#61

Post by njovin » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

luffapi wrote: post #40

sethammons wrote: post #11

> rude customers, whose abuses restaurant staff are often forced to tolerate Service workers in general, I'd love it if more managers and companies would support front line workers in refusing service. The customer is not always right. People should not have to put up with literal abuse. The Alamo Drafthouse theater is famously known for kicking someone out who was using their cell phone and other customers appreciat…

While this is absolutely true, it would also make the job very stressful (and potentially dangerous) if front-line staff, or any staff really, has to eject people on a regular basis. I definitely wouldn’t want to do it, the people who you’d be refusing service to would be the worst of the worst and likely not take it well.

Maybe if enough businesses did this it would drive a societal shift. I've had the pleasure of firing a small handful of customers from my very small SaaS business when they were outrightly rude or vulgar. I feel terrible whenever I see an employee at any business having to be sanguine with an abusive customer, it shouldn't be tolerated.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#62

Post by rocgf » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #41

colinmhayes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurant work sucks, it's not tipping's fault. I don't work nearly as hard as a software developer compared to when I was a waiter or cook. Software development is lower stress most of the time too.

For me, job stress has little to do with being extremely busy in the moment and a lot to do with thinking about far-flung high-leverage consequences of mistakes (will this system crash in the middle of the night 2 weeks from now, costing tons of money and causing someone to call me in a panic?). With something like being a cook, failure feedback is usually pretty immediate, which IMO is nice for stress levels.

Have you ever worked in a kitchen or are you just assuming?

I personally haven't worked in a restaurant, but I see how the staff and chefs are always running around, doing 20 things at once. Stimulants use like cocaine and amphetamine is endemic in the industry as well, probably for that reason.

As a restaurant worker, the pay is usually terrible as well. So while some super rich corporation won't lose millions off of your mistakes, you can lose your job and be forced to live off of your inexistent savings. That sounds very stressful to me.

Your assessment for what constitutes stress seems to be, at best, highly subjective.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#63

Post by vishnugupta » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #11

> rude customers, whose abuses restaurant staff are often forced to tolerate Service workers in general, I'd love it if more managers and companies would support front line workers in refusing service. The customer is not always right. People should not have to put up with literal abuse. The Alamo Drafthouse theater is famously known for kicking someone out who was using their cell phone and other customers appreciat…

This.

"Customer is king" mentality should die. Far too often it leads to disgruntled frontline workers and customers walking around as if they are doing a business favour just by being their customer. Even something seemingly as simple as "smiling" is tiring if done all day.

In a business transaction all parties are equal. No one is doing anyone else a favour.

I quite liked it when I saw signboards in Singapore that said abusing a store keeper is a punishable offence.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#64

Post by tenebrisalietum » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

tarr11 wrote: post #17

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

A lot of this article is about fast food workers, who don’t get tips. The answer is automation, logistics and supply chain improvements so you can service more customers with fewer, but more specialized employees who can be paid a living wage.

So is it better to give 10 people some wage, but not a living wage, or 5 people a living wage and have 5 people with no wage?

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#65

Post by flir » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #22

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

I don't think higher wages alone will do it. Profit sharing, on the other hand...

I wonder if a McDonalds has ever been run as a co-op.

I wonder what McDonalds would do if you tried it.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#66

Post by luffapi » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

zxspectrum1982 wrote: post #18

nostromo wrote: post #6

I’m sure it has nothing to do with the government paying people to sit at home - something NPR forgot to mention in their article.

Exactly. This is not about tips, it's about waiter salary being too close to free money to stay at home. We are seeing this problem with waiters at other countries too, where employees are paid "full salary" and tipping is not even a thing.

The answer to any labor shortage is to pay more. Either take the profits currently captured by the owner and use them for salaries or raise prices and do the same. No consumer should ever be responsible for an entrepreneur’s failing business model.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#67

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #20

namdnay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, as necessary as that is, it’s not a magic solution. People are quitting the restaurant industry in France too, despite having none of the tip silliness. It’s just that people are realizing that there are easier minimum wage jobs than working in a kitchen

Perhaps the industry is not sustainable then.

I agree. It seems that most people's "solutions" to this "problem" are various ways to make people's live more miserable and keep them desperate enough to work shit jobs for low pay. I guess a lot of people are just fine with having a slave class as long as it means they don't have to be inconvenienced in any way.

If this industry literally cannot afford to pay people a living wage, if no one wants to work for them and they can't remain profitable by making working conditions better, then they just shouldn't even exist.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#68

Post by maerF0x0 » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

foxyv wrote: post #26

pm90 wrote: post #2

> That's because for many, leaving food service had a lot to do also with its high-stress culture: exhausting work, unreliable hours, no benefits and so many rude customers. I didn't realize that rude customers was that widespread.

The terrible customers are rare. Maybe 1% of the public. However when you service 200 people you will have an ~80% chance to run into at least one terrible customer. If you don't feel protected or supported this can be soul crushing. Even worse if you come home to poverty.

I think you're hitting the nail on the head here.

1) Lack of general(outside work) support for what essentially is an empathy job (care about the customer experience)

2) Lack of social enforcement of dont be a piece of shit. People used to call out people more for behavioral standards (swearing, presumption of positive intent, codes of dress, on and on the list goes...)

Next time you see someone being treated poorly speak up. Everyone is too busy recording for youtube rather than interacting in the environment. We've become passive observers rather than active partakers in life.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#69

Post by efa » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

k33n wrote: post #53

Great servers at high end restaurants are making 100K a year because of tips. Why would they want to make $20 an hour?

I've heard of servers making so much they can't afford to move to a white collar job (or would have to take a pay cut).

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#70

Post by Ajay-p » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

k33n wrote: post #53

Great servers at high end restaurants are making 100K a year because of tips. Why would they want to make $20 an hour?

I don't agree that "great servers" are making 100K because of tips, but instead it is because of the generalized percentage gratuity. Just because the food was $150 doesn't mean the service was great, and just because the tip was large, doesn't mean the service was good.

In my experience only half of the population tips based on percentage, and it's generally those who eat at high end places, or seem to be more affluent. The rest tip based on "service" and that could be 5% on a $150 bill, or 20% on a $15 tab. I've seen both, and I think your example only applies to a very small percentage of wait staff.