When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest • Hacker News Board

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#61

Post by tzs » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 12:51 AM UTC

vmception wrote: post #18

unpolloloco wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with herd immunity is that the rate differs based on the variant. For something much more transmissible (like the Delta variant), herd immunity numbers are much different than for the original one. There's an argument that the US reached herd immunity on the original one pretty early on in vaccinations. And alpha with current vaccination rates. It's clear we haven't with Delta because numbers are going wa…

Immunity to one would be immunity to the other They use the same vector for infection which so the immunities offer protection against. The protection mechanism is a game of catch up though.

You are thinking about individual immunity. The comment you were responding to was about herd immunity.

Herd immunity is when enough people have individual immunity that when those without immunity get infected so many of those around them are immune that the outbreak quickly dies out on its own.

Even if individual immunity is the same for variants A and B of some virus, if variant B spreads more easily than variant A then you will have to have a higher percentage of the population with individual immunity in order to have herd immunity.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#62

Post by vmception » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #41

vmception wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or deal with the costs of long Covid still remains true and you didn’t present a counterpoint to that

Would you say the same thing about abortions? Just because a child was taught that contraception is evil, we shouldn't have to pay for her abortion?

This example doesn't disrupt anybody else’s life, limiting the similarity only to b) which I don't have an opinion about in isolation

both a) and b) have to be satisfied for me to care enough to dissect the similarities and offer an opinion

I’ve come to understand your example is a topic a lot of people care passionately about though. That’s interesting.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#63

Post by hvac » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #25

kcplate wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. There is an unbelievable irony in the fact that the current administration is on a intense PR push to get unvaccinated Americans to trust the vaccines and get vaccinated when they specifically communicated during their (Biden and Harris) campaigns last year their distrust regarding the vaccine due to its association with Trump, speed of development, and experimental nature. This is what happens when peo…

In 2020 California and several other states said that they would conduct independent safety reviews of the vaccines because they didn't trust the Trump administration. When state government officials make irresponsible statements like that it's not surprising that some people are hesitant. https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...

With three out of those four states having vaccination rates that are now above average, how can you be sure that an independent safety review didn't have the opposite effect?

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#64

Post by kcplate » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

hvac wrote: post #63

nradov wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2020 California and several other states said that they would conduct independent safety reviews of the vaccines because they didn't trust the Trump administration. When state government officials make irresponsible statements like that it's not surprising that some people are hesitant. https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/10/27/western-states-join-califo...

With three out of those four states having vaccination rates that are now above average, how can you be sure that an independent safety review didn't have the opposite effect?

At this point it’s impossible to say what the effect would have been. The states that have the above average rates are all very blue and that tracks with the current political winds of the democrats regarding vaccines. The political opinion on vaccines immediately shifted 180 degrees on Biden’s win, because there there was no need to resist Trump and vaccine hesitancy was a tactic being employed by the resisters.

Independent review may have convinced some who were hesitant but I suspect they would have been the folks independently hesitant as opposed to the “politically hesitant”. The politically hesitant would hold out until their trusted party authorities blessed the vaccines.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#65

Post by hatware » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #2

Why is there no widespread antibody testing to see if we've reached herd immunity? The push to vaccinate is only necessary if we're not there yet. I recall a study from a couple months ago claiming several times more people caught the virus than was generally thought.

> Why is there no widespread antibody testing to see if we've reached herd immunity?

Because then the show has to stop. It's pretty dark if you think about it long enough.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#66

Post by perl4ever » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 3:23 AM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #13

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

99.5% of those dying from Covid in America are unvaccinated. 99.5%. At a certain point, I don’t know what to say, but the train has to leave the station. If you choose to run around unvaccinated and get Covid, the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or dealing with the costs of long Covid. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Moto…

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

>Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs.

There's been a lot of stories and allegations about vaccination programs in Pakistan in the 21st century, in relation to attempts to find Osama Bin Laden. That they were fake, and/or covertly collecting DNA for the CIA.

Is this a valid reason for all Americans to be suspicious of vaccines or at least not to blame them?