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Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

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Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#131

Post by munk-a »

TameAntelope wrote: post #93
munk-a wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are born (possibly) needing a car to commute to work, and needing a place to live, and needing to eat - and those costs have been going up. It is legitimately difficult and incredibly stressful to work in the service industry in San Fran unless you've lucked into being able to live in the downtown on the cheap. The suburbs that are affordable are hours away by car and more by public transit.

> in San Fran That’s a choice, and exactly what I’m talking about. Everything is a trade-off and while you can’t control everything, you can control a lot of things. One example I like to think of in this situation is a person I knew from my childhood, who struggled. If you asked him, he'd tell you how hard it is out there, and how many times life had giving him the short end of the stick. In many ways, he was right.…

Oh yea - some people have a hard time adjusting to the life they're able to live, but for a while I subletted a bedroom for 250/mo in a party house and that period of my life was utterly miserable. I got absolutely terrible sleep and the bathroom frequently with a sink full of rotting limes encouraged me to spend as much time as possible loitering on campus. I would've had a hard time working during that period as my schedule was constantly in flux around when parties were happening and my ability to have a shower was sometimes limited by puke or passed out folks.

You're mostly coming from an angle of personal choice but relocating yourself a significant distance costs a lot of money, it can be a financial burden to move across country or even across state. There are people who can voluntarily escape their situation (like your buddy) but there are a big portion that are just stuck there involuntarily.

I'd add that it's also a bit unfair to judge people whose solutions seem solvable but are in tough spots. I don't know if you've ever lived through a period of high stress (I was a game developer for a while and worked a lot of overtime while suffering from OSA) but when you don't have room to breathe it can be hard to puzzle a way out of your situation. You're just focusing on surviving with what you've got and all your energy is going into it, you don't have the presence of mind to logically consider your options and decide to cut your losses and run.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#132

Post by TameAntelope »

munk-a wrote: post #131
TameAntelope wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in San Fran That’s a choice, and exactly what I’m talking about. Everything is a trade-off and while you can’t control everything, you can control a lot of things. One example I like to think of in this situation is a person I knew from my childhood, who struggled. If you asked him, he'd tell you how hard it is out there, and how many times life had giving him the short end of the stick. In many ways, he was right.…

Oh yea - some people have a hard time adjusting to the life they're able to live, but for a while I subletted a bedroom for 250/mo in a party house and that period of my life was utterly miserable. I got absolutely terrible sleep and the bathroom frequently with a sink full of rotting limes encouraged me to spend as much time as possible loitering on campus. I would've had a hard time working during that period as my…

Not only do I think it's not unfair, I think people who are in tough situations often hide in those tough situations as a way of explaining their continued poor choices, even though the situation, while tough, has no bearing on why people keep digging themselves into deeper and deeper holes.

For example, it costs money to move out of SF, yes, but it also costs money to stay in SF, which is something you'd figure out if you stopped and evaluated the options.

It's hard, I empathize with that, but it's no excuse. Everything is hard, and having the presence of mind to logically consider your options is your responsibility. Not taking that time is not a luxury people in those situations usually have, but seem to think they do because "do nothing" is always an option, no matter how costly it ends up actually being.

I think it's fair to judge someone based on their decisions, doubly so for their decisions in a tough spot. There are always good choices to be made in a given situation, and not making those good choices (even if they're limited) is the responsibility of the individual, and nobody else.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#133

Post by munk-a »

TameAntelope wrote: post #132
munk-a wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yea - some people have a hard time adjusting to the life they're able to live, but for a while I subletted a bedroom for 250/mo in a party house and that period of my life was utterly miserable. I got absolutely terrible sleep and the bathroom frequently with a sink full of rotting limes encouraged me to spend as much time as possible loitering on campus. I would've had a hard time working during that period as my…

Not only do I think it's not unfair, I think people who are in tough situations often hide in those tough situations as a way of explaining their continued poor choices, even though the situation, while tough, has no bearing on why people keep digging themselves into deeper and deeper holes. For example, it costs money to move out of SF, yes, but it also costs money to stay in SF, which is something you'd figure out…

I think that at some point in your life you may change your tune on that fact if you ever find yourself in an incredibly stressful situation. I do understand that it seems illogical from the outside, but struggling to survive can leave you blind to hope that things can get better and prevent you from having the stability of mind to sort out your shit. This is one of (but not the only reason) why abusive relationships are also such a big problem - while you're in them you don't have the personal power and stability to safely transition out of them.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#134

Post by vondur »

qqqwerty wrote: post #119
vondur wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm a Mountain Biker and have been for quite sometime now. I've had people ask me about getting into Mountain Biking on the cheap, say sub $500. I've told them to try hiking, it's far cheaper.

You can get a suitable hardtail for less than $500 on Craigslist pretty easy. I have been riding a bike I got for $100 for over 5 years. I dropped another $100 on a new set of brakes just to be safe. And most beginners would probably be better off starting on a cheap hardtail anyways. They should be starting off on easier trials where expensive gear is overkill, and hardtails are much less maintenance which means the…

I agree with the sentiment, but even with that many people get "ugradeitis" when they hit the trails and see all the cool looking expensive bikes. It's crazy to see how many high end mountain bikes here in Southern Orange County CA.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#135

Post by TameAntelope »

munk-a wrote: post #133
TameAntelope wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only do I think it's not unfair, I think people who are in tough situations often hide in those tough situations as a way of explaining their continued poor choices, even though the situation, while tough, has no bearing on why people keep digging themselves into deeper and deeper holes. For example, it costs money to move out of SF, yes, but it also costs money to stay in SF, which is something you'd figure out…

I think that at some point in your life you may change your tune on that fact if you ever find yourself in an incredibly stressful situation. I do understand that it seems illogical from the outside, but struggling to survive can leave you blind to hope that things can get better and prevent you from having the stability of mind to sort out your shit. This is one of (but not the only reason) why abusive relationships…

I disagree that I haven't been in an incredibly stressful situation, I think I just handled my stress appropriately and in a way that didn't make things worse.

Further, I don't think what I did in stressful situations is relevant to this conversation at all, since we're talking about what one should do. Saying, "One should panic, and that's okay." is not accurate, I don't think.

Surely it's understandable, but it's not what one ought to do.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#136

Post by 29athrowaway »

stnmtn wrote: post #130
29athrowaway wrote: post #42

If you love nature leave nature alone. 1. People hike somewhere 2. A positive review is written, that attracts more people 3. Because of the increased amount of people going to certain place, a hotel and a restaurant is built. 4. Restaurant workers and hotel workers need a place to live, so they build houses. 5. Houses need a power plant, water, trash service... police stations, fire stations, healthcare. 6. Nature i…

This is perhaps the most cynical comment I've seen. Are you seriously advocating that it's impossible to enjoy nature in a healthy way?

Nature does not exist for you to "enjoy" it.

Nature seeks balance by evolving creatures that have a reciprocal relationship with the environment. Every creature has a specific role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Humans have no predators. We are effectively an invasive species that does not seek balance with the environment and thrive at the expense of the balance that nature has created in an unsustainable manner.

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#137

Post by Havoc »

whiskyant wrote: post #115
Havoc wrote: post #11

>I have no idea where all my money went. I can so relate to that. Fortunately my natural instincts appear to leave me with cash at end of month which I move to savings...but that is about the extent of my control over things.

You have bank account and credit card statements right? Maybe take a look and see where the money is going?

Quickly becomes a chore when there are lots of cards accounts and platforms involved. Considered binding it together via api but different countries so it’s all a bit messy

Re: Young, Dumb, and Broke: Why Outdoorsy Types Suck at Money

#138

Post by whiskyant »

Havoc wrote: post #137
whiskyant wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have bank account and credit card statements right? Maybe take a look and see where the money is going?

Quickly becomes a chore when there are lots of cards accounts and platforms involved. Considered binding it together via api but different countries so it’s all a bit messy

You only have to look once to know where all the money is going, generally spending patterns are fairly consistent month-to-month. Like you said, there are APIs out there too.

At this point, refusal to do it is just outright laziness/irresponsibility.

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