“We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network” • Hacker News Board

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#131

Post by brewdad » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #38

jsnell wrote: post #14

> The problem I have with both phones [Pixel 4a, Galaxy S10e], especially the Galaxy, however is that they are several years old That appears untrue. The Pixel 4a was released in August 2020, so less than a year ago. It has guaranteed software updates until August 2023. (Or maybe until November 2023, unclear which model the author is referring to.)

I don’t believe googles update commitments. I had a pixel 2 XL it gets updates, but many of the new features were only available on the newer pixel devices. I’ve had the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, the Nexus 5, the pixel, and the Pixel 2 XL and I got tired of Google forgetting about their existence as soon as the next device came out.

Agreed. Between my wife and I we've had a Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Nexus 5x, Pixel 2 and Pixel 3 along with a few other regrettable phones. The short support window, even for Google devices, has made us finally jump ship. We both switched to iPhone 12 this spring and so far the change has been easy.

I'm past the age of wanting to constantly tinker with my phone and my wife really just wants a good camera. I don't see us going back to Android unless Apple tightens its grip to the point of making owning a Mac mandatory.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#132

Post by op00to » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

miked85 wrote: post #9

BMW recently sent out an email of impending loss of 3G connectivity. > The decision to phase out 3G network technology was made at the discretion of the respective cellular carriers and lies beyond the control of BMW. As a result of the sunset of 3G service by wireless carrier partners, by February 2022 your vehicle will no longer be able to receive any ConnectedDrive/BMW Assist services, such as BMW Assist eCall, Ad…

Subaru upgraded my telematics unit in my car for free when 3g was ending in my area.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#133

Post by op00to » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

lxgr wrote: post #116

topranks wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s insane to keep a massive portion of spectrum on this old technology to support a very small amount of people with outdated hardware.

Not just that – it complicates cell planning a lot. As far as I know, UMTS and LTE behave very differently under load, and at least in the early versions of UMTS there was the phenomenon of "cell breathing", where the serviceable cell radius varies with network load (due to the CDMA modulation/multiple access scheme used). Having to provide denser cells in sparsely populated areas just to avoid dropped calls during t…

In my old house, on UMTS, I would have perfect signal except for 6am-4pm when the local school was there. It was fine in the summer. The local school soaked up the entire “cell” and my house was a dead spot.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#134

Post by brianwawok » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

xedeon wrote: post #39

brianwawok wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Teslas (like 5+ years) will lose net when 3g goes. You can do a computer upgrade but I don’t think it’s cheap ($500-$1500 range offhand)

That's not accurate. You don't need to upgrade the MCU/infotainment computer and the retrofit is only $200. "A source has informed me that due to AT&T shutting down its 3G network by Feb 2022, Model S's without an LTE-capable modem will lose connectivity features unless connected to WiFi. HOWEVER, Tesla will offer retrofits for $200. Affected vehicles are pre June 2015." "Tesla will be offering retrofits for these ve…

Okay that's good. Last I heard was that they stopped doing daughter board upgrades, and you had to swap your entire computer. Things like this tend to change pretty fast/often in Tesla land, so can't always keep up.

(Also don't have a 2014 Model S so doesn't impact me personally)

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#135

Post by brianwawok » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

chasil wrote: post #75

xedeon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not accurate. You don't need to upgrade the MCU/infotainment computer and the retrofit is only $200. "A source has informed me that due to AT&T shutting down its 3G network by Feb 2022, Model S's without an LTE-capable modem will lose connectivity features unless connected to WiFi. HOWEVER, Tesla will offer retrofits for $200. Affected vehicles are pre June 2015." "Tesla will be offering retrofits for these ve…

I really appreciate my 2011 Civic's lack of a cellular modem.

Do you? Because when it's -10F here, I can remote start my car, even if outside remote start range. Rather nice to always have a toasty car (or cool in summer).

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#136

Post by brianwawok » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

techrat wrote: post #31

tpmx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really should have used an easily replaceable mPCIe cellular module. $50 replacement cost. Interface has been around since 2005.

And $1450 labor.

I have actually found Tesla labor prices very reasonable.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#137

Post by Arnavion » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

iofiiiiiiiii wrote: post #126

> That’s my boring story of entitlement. Damn straight. Call me a soulless corporate drone but I completely understand AT&T here. Sometimes you need to drop old and unprofitable services. With millions of customers, you can't afford to cater to everyone who wants to be treated as a special case. There are genuine special cases that need the attention, and "but I like my phone" is just an example of a modern Karen in…

I know, right? If my corporation overlords told me "You have twelve months to make a decision. PSYKE you only have 30 days because we took the liberty of deciding for you." I'd be slobbering with delight and gratitude at their thoughtfulness. Only a Karen would be annoyed by that.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#138

Post by g_p » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 11:51 PM UTC

tpmx wrote: post #57

g_p wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US (not sure about Canadian) mobile market is completely different to the European one. It's almost alien in comparison - the carrier tries to control absolutely everything, and generally sees the handset as an extension of their network to the extent they want to "type approve" every firmware release on every handset that is "allowed" onto their network. Apple appeared to become the exception due to having such…

> when they get rid of their circuit switched fallback networks Why? Isn't that stuff they run in software (on network hardware) and could emulate forever for a low cost? (Or at least for another decade until very, very few people would care.)

Not really - many are still running it on legacy appliances like they have done for years.

There's also a lot of implications of moving CSFB type functions into the IT environment due to completely different security assumptions in both worlds.

That's not to say you can't do it, but the circuit switched networks are very often actual literal networks of legacy hardware that operators want to get rid of and take out of service.

The cost of keeping legacy systems going is also raised due to skills shortages and limited expertise. Another reason operators will try to get rid of it if possible.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#139

Post by g_p » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 11:52 PM UTC

btbuilder wrote: post #80

g_p wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VoLTE has been "broken" (from a standards perspective) since before it even launched in most markets - it is just too "finicky" and configuration-specific. LTE/4G demonstrated the success of standards in that it "just works" as long as you have the right bands in place. Since most (modern) phones have the bands needed for the main global markets, you can pop in a SIM card and get connected anywhere. VoLTE is far more…

The success of standardization predates LTE by a lot if you look beyond the US which had competing technologies until LTE. GSM networks (2G) allowed roaming and switching between phones by swapping SIMs in all of Europe in the mid nineties, and most of the rest of the world a few years later. Just the US use of a unique 1900Mhz band kept roaming mostly unavailable.

Indeed, I was using LTE as an example of the peak standards benefit, but in Europe this simply hasn't been a factor for decades. 2G and 3G were similarly uneventful and straightforward (for the most part).

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#140

Post by jimmaswell » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 12:04 AM UTC

topranks wrote: post #110

jimmaswell wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of 3G is going to be an unmitigated disaster it seems. Might even be appropriate for the FCC to step in and force them to keep it up. A lesser loss is that 3G often works in a big crowd where LTE is overloaded. Maybe that'll at least change to 5G vs LTE over time.

It’s insane to keep a massive portion of spectrum on this old technology to support a very small amount of people with outdated hardware.

It's more about these devices that aren't so easy to replace like car modems. If 3G won't be it then we need to settle on something else that can be promised to be there in the foreseeable future for the longevity of IoT/cars/whatever else.