I am a clojure intermediate-beginner who would like to use it to learn about web technologies, which I know almost nothing about. Would people recommend this as an entry point? If not what would you recommend instead?
ClojureScript
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Re: ClojureScript
#32I am a clojure intermediate-beginner who would like to use it to learn about web technologies, which I know almost nothing about. Would people recommend this as an entry point? If not what would you recommend instead?
I think it would be a bit too meta (and work in progress) to start with. Check out this article for standard Clojure (A Brief Overview of the Clojure Web Stack): http://brehaut.net/blog/2011/ring_introduction
Re: ClojureScript
#33I am a clojure intermediate-beginner who would like to use it to learn about web technologies, which I know almost nothing about. Would people recommend this as an entry point? If not what would you recommend instead?
[deleted]
Re: ClojureScript
#34Now we have a "solid" Lispy alternative to imperative languages that compile to JS. Nice surprise Rich !
You mean other than Parenscript[1], which seems to have been written about 4 years ago?
Edit: Parenscript was just the first to come to mind, but check out http://www.cliki.net/JavaScript
Re: ClojureScript
#35Node.js + clojurescript just came up in the Demo. Part of me says awesome, another part says "How many hipster programmer brains blew up" Overall I'm excited about this and anxious to see how far it can be taken, because if you can write an ENTIRE webapp in clojure is thought provoking.
I'm glad for the Clojure community if this didn't exist before, but I'm pretty sure Lispers (ie Common Lispers) have written "entire" web apps in Lisp for quite a while[1].
For example, Kenny Tilton wrote a Lisp wrapper to qooxdoo on top of his data-flow library (Cells). The only time we need to write JS code now is for additional glue for widgets or functionality we haven't wrapped yet. And since it wraps qooxdoo, this means not writing (or needing to know) a lick of HTML/CSS. We just write Lisp. And we persist data to a triple store that "shapes" the Lisp/qooxdoo code at runtime.
[1] I want to say "years" but I'm not sure how many people have used CL to write "entire" web apps.
Re: ClojureScript
#36Now we have a "solid" Lispy alternative to imperative languages that compile to JS. Nice surprise Rich !
You mean other than Parenscript[1], which seems to have been written about 4 years ago? Edit: Parenscript was just the first to come to mind, but check out http://www.cliki.net/JavaScript [1] http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/
Version 0.1.0 came out in early 2005, so it's been around more than six years.
Re: ClojureScript
#37Node.js + clojurescript just came up in the Demo. Part of me says awesome, another part says "How many hipster programmer brains blew up" Overall I'm excited about this and anxious to see how far it can be taken, because if you can write an ENTIRE webapp in clojure is thought provoking.
I'm glad for the Clojure community if this didn't exist before, but I'm pretty sure Lispers (ie Common Lispers) have written "entire" web apps in Lisp for quite a while[1]. For example, Kenny Tilton wrote a Lisp wrapper to qooxdoo on top of his data-flow library (Cells). The only time we need to write JS code now is for additional glue for widgets or functionality we haven't wrapped yet. And since it wraps qooxdoo, t…
I notice you keep replying about Parenscript, but the difference here is important. The reason this is a bigger deal than you make it out to be is because Clojure is hosted on the JVM. That means it's generally had a chance to enter the enterprise, and beyond that, has access to the entire JVM library and interop.
What this means now is, for the first time, you can write Clojure code on the server, interop with legacy Java code or well-tested libraries, and then write Clojure code on the client, full stack. This, as far as I know, is a pretty big game changer since it allows you to write a full-stack web application that is part of the Java ecosystem in a single language that happens to not suck either.
Edit: To clarify, I'm sure there are other JVM lisps, and other Javascript lisps. But this is the first one that is both, I'd wager. This is important.
Re: ClojureScript
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Node.js is the pragmatic choice for ClojureScript command line apps. One of Clojure's weaknesses was that the JVM was not a great choice for these types of scripts. ClojureScript + Node.js effectively solves this problem.
I don't understand; why bring a web framework into it for command-line work? Is it just that straight-up V8 has a crappy CLI experience?
Node isn't a web framework, it's more of unixy, network oriented stdlib for v8.
Re: ClojureScript
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm glad for the Clojure community if this didn't exist before, but I'm pretty sure Lispers (ie Common Lispers) have written "entire" web apps in Lisp for quite a while[1]. For example, Kenny Tilton wrote a Lisp wrapper to qooxdoo on top of his data-flow library (Cells). The only time we need to write JS code now is for additional glue for widgets or functionality we haven't wrapped yet. And since it wraps qooxdoo, t…
I notice you keep replying about Parenscript, but the difference here is important. The reason this is a bigger deal than you make it out to be is because Clojure is hosted on the JVM. That means it's generally had a chance to enter the enterprise, and beyond that, has access to the entire JVM library and interop. What this means now is, for the first time, you can write Clojure code on the server, interop with legac…
So the only reason it's a big deal is because it's Clojure? It was only a matter of time this library was written by somebody.
Edit: I guess this somebody also happens to be Rich Hickey. Indeed it would be a big deal if John McCarthy had written Parenscript. :D
Re: ClojureScript
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm glad for the Clojure community if this didn't exist before, but I'm pretty sure Lispers (ie Common Lispers) have written "entire" web apps in Lisp for quite a while[1]. For example, Kenny Tilton wrote a Lisp wrapper to qooxdoo on top of his data-flow library (Cells). The only time we need to write JS code now is for additional glue for widgets or functionality we haven't wrapped yet. And since it wraps qooxdoo, t…
I notice you keep replying about Parenscript, but the difference here is important. The reason this is a bigger deal than you make it out to be is because Clojure is hosted on the JVM. That means it's generally had a chance to enter the enterprise, and beyond that, has access to the entire JVM library and interop. What this means now is, for the first time, you can write Clojure code on the server, interop with legac…
To play devil's advocate, wouldn't the exact same thing be possible with the above alternatives and Armed Bear Common Lisp? You can write full-stack in Common Lisp, it's just that different parts need to go through different compilers/interpreters/transformers/what-have-you. Just as it is with Clojure.
No, I think the thing to note here is that Clojure--for reasons I can only guess at--has a lot more sex appeal than CL.