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“We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

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Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#111

Post by Gaelan »

g_p wrote: post #53
mod50ack wrote: post #4

VoLTE is so damn frustrating. LTE works via plug and play with any phone that supports the correct bands, but VoLTE doesn't. I have a Sony Xperia phone here in Canada and it's just not possible to use it on VoLTE without rooting to install specific provisioning files and whatnot. And that's not even counting how you can't just go from country to country without changing firmware. I've always used a local SIM whenever…

VoLTE has been "broken" (from a standards perspective) since before it even launched in most markets - it is just too "finicky" and configuration-specific. LTE/4G demonstrated the success of standards in that it "just works" as long as you have the right bands in place. Since most (modern) phones have the bands needed for the main global markets, you can pop in a SIM card and get connected anywhere. VoLTE is far more…

> local laws (in the country you roam in) might restrict the ability to do [IPSec]

Is there a way to find out which countries do this?

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#112

Post by antihero »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #102
ornornor wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes of course technically anyone can fake anything including hard copies. In practice, once you have to go up against your carrier, having a recording stating an actual employee number with a voice that matches the CSR that your account file says you spoke to will be good enough. Don’t be so pedantic.

No it won't, all CSR #2 needs to say is "CSR #1 is wrong and shouldn't have told you that." Now what? AT&T has done this to me in the past.

Well surely then you can void your contract, because you agreed it based on false information?

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#113

Post by nine_k »

It looks like signing up with a proper VoIP operator and paying a few bucks a month more is now the way to make sure you have voice connectivity everywhere you have mobile coverage. And a bunch of text / voice / video messengers, of course. As much as mobile operators tried to avoid turning into dumb data pipes, such network fragmentation pushes them hard in this direction.

The tricky part is SMS aka text messages. They were a neat GSM hack, and were / are present on every new protocol. Many companies use them for 2FA (not great, I know). Not having them because of the network fragmentation makes me feel like in 1990s again when different GSM and NMT networks could not agree on passing them transparently.

Well, ok, please give me a dumb LTE data pipe that works everywhere, I'll sort out the rest. Thank you for your market segmentation.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#114

Post by lxgr »

vzaliva wrote: post #100

I stopped using AT&T while ago, and have no love for them, but let's be fair: the OP bought an unlocked phone elsewhere (not from them) and now complaining that they are not replacing it with comparable model. As sombody who always buys unlocked phones I have no expectations from my carrier to support or replace them. I can always sell them though. I can also always leave the carrier as having unlocked phone allows m…

This seems like such a weird business practice of US carriers.

Every single network I've ever used worked as plug-and-play with both Android and iPhones (except for frequency band and technology support, of course; a GSM 900/1800 phone won't work on UMTS 2100).

I understand the carriers' desire to provide a consistent user experience, but the practice of allowlisting devices based on IMEI prefix or even exact IMEI seems like a real pain, especially when in 99% of all scenarios, it would just work anyway.

Is this due to VoLTE/911 calling requirements, or is it really just a leftover from the time when US phones didn't really have SIM cards and the phone was (almost) inextricably linked to a given plan and vice versa?

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#115

Post by lxgr »

donatj wrote: post #109
vzaliva wrote: post #100

I stopped using AT&T while ago, and have no love for them, but let's be fair: the OP bought an unlocked phone elsewhere (not from them) and now complaining that they are not replacing it with comparable model. As sombody who always buys unlocked phones I have no expectations from my carrier to support or replace them. I can always sell them though. I can also always leave the carrier as having unlocked phone allows m…

> As sombody who always buys unlocked phones I have no expectations from my carrier to support or replace them. As someone who buys unlocked phones, I wouldn’t use a carrier who didn’t support them. They’re a bad abusive carrier not worth your money if they do not. I don’t understand why anyone would be more ok with their cell provider dictating what device you can use than they would be with their internet provider…

> their internet provider dictating what computer they can use

A better analogy would probably be an ISP dictating what modems/CPEs are supported on their network – and isn't that common practice?

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#116

Post by lxgr »

topranks wrote: post #110
jimmaswell wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of 3G is going to be an unmitigated disaster it seems. Might even be appropriate for the FCC to step in and force them to keep it up. A lesser loss is that 3G often works in a big crowd where LTE is overloaded. Maybe that'll at least change to 5G vs LTE over time.

It’s insane to keep a massive portion of spectrum on this old technology to support a very small amount of people with outdated hardware.

Not just that – it complicates cell planning a lot.

As far as I know, UMTS and LTE behave very differently under load, and at least in the early versions of UMTS there was the phenomenon of "cell breathing", where the serviceable cell radius varies with network load (due to the CDMA modulation/multiple access scheme used).

Having to provide denser cells in sparsely populated areas just to avoid dropped calls during the odd traffic spike sounds like a real pain.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#117

Post by ksec »

anticensor wrote: post #101
tpmx wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a white list of devices is pretty unusual in Europe, afaik.

In Turkey, device whitelisting is required by law, but it is done by the government itself, not by the carrier operator.

Interesting. What is the rational of that? So I cant bring in a obscure phone that no one have heard of before into Turkey and expect it to work on any mobile network?

This is hardly "Mobile" at all.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#118

Post by DaniloDias »

29083011397778 wrote: post #107
shadilay wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cingular, not AT&T. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2007/01/09Apple-Chooses-Cingu...

This is bizarre. After you pointed out my error, I went to Wikipedia to verify before saying anything more. I was wrong originally; you, me, and your link all know it. But Wikipedia says it was AT&T that first carried the iPhone [0]. I assume it's because AT&T bought Cingular, but it feels off not noting that it was branded under Cingular instead of the separate (at the time) AT&T. It's an eerie feeling finding error…

It is shocking to me that anyone would consider Wikipedia as an irrefutable source of truth.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#119

Post by rootsudo »

jimmar wrote: post #28

I have an old OnePlus phone that still works fine, but it won't work with AT&T's network changes. I called and AT&T said I could get an iPhone SE for free, but when the contracts came for me to confirm, there was no mention of getting a free phone, and instead I was committing to paying $400 over three years. The AT&T reps assured me I'd get be credited at some point in the future and that the phone would end up bein…

This is normal, it's free with 2yr contract lol.

Re: “We're Shutting Down Our 3G Network”

#120

Post by joecool1029 »

nine_k wrote: post #113

It looks like signing up with a proper VoIP operator and paying a few bucks a month more is now the way to make sure you have voice connectivity everywhere you have mobile coverage. And a bunch of text / voice / video messengers, of course. As much as mobile operators tried to avoid turning into dumb data pipes, such network fragmentation pushes them hard in this direction. The tricky part is SMS aka text messages. T…

> It looks like signing up with a proper VoIP operator and paying a few bucks a month more is now the way to make sure you have voice connectivity everywhere you have mobile coverage.

Without latency guarantees. If you end up on a congested cell and/or are deprioritized you will have noticable latency spikes and jitter. voLTE/voNR and their corresponding signalling have dedicated priority QoS.

I did use VOIP for many years over 3G WCDMA and 4G LTE networks as well as WiFi when I roamed between countries and swapped local prepaid SIM cards. Used Google Voice for SMS. My setup worked most of the time but I wouldn't go back to it again unless I had the necessity to. Too many times I'd get calls with big latency.

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