My app just got removed with no prior warning • Hacker News Board

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#121

Post by collaborative » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #119

collaborative wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you I will review all these and submit them if appropriate Do you know if these apply to me? My jurisdiction is the UK, even though I guess the app is distributed globally

In the UK there's the Competition and Markets Authority[1]. I think it's still worth it to file reports or complaints with the US federal government's antitrust divisions for a few reasons: - Multiple bodies of government have been gearing up to take on this issue and issues like it, and any evidence of anticompetitive behavior can be used in investigations, legislation and enforcement of antitrust laws. - While Goog…

Thank you. I will dedicate all of tomorrow to this

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#122

Post by rchaud » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

ehutch79 wrote: post #117

rchaud wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people agreed with that Steve Jobs letter about Flash in 2010. Some of that feeling may still linger. In retrospect, that darn letter and the usual Jobs media fawning was probably the first domino that led to the web being completely marginalized on iOS in favour of Apple-approved apps.

flash is not the open web. it was a proprietary plugin.

Didn't say it was the open web. The web in general wasn't all that open. You couldn't run Netflix on your PC without a Microsoft Silverlight plugin. Today, it's Widevine for Android. Both proprietary and closed source.

Adobe made Flash plugins available for iOS, Android, WebOS and Blackberry. There was none of the anti-competitive moat building that Apple and Google engaged in to win the app war and squeeze out every other vendor.

The death of Flash meant that there was no universal, un-walled app store that was OS-agnostic.

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#123

Post by perryizgr8 » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 3:04 AM UTC

> App stores have reached a size that can now be considered a "para-web".

I agree with this statement. Apple app store and Google play store have a near universal monopoly on the software users can install on their phones. Phones must constitute of a large majority of all software that is run by end users. Hence, the usual argument about the stores being a "private platform" do not apply.

Google and Apple must treat it as a public square, where everybody has a right to host their apps. If their app is doing something illegal, let the courts sort it out.

If managing these stores seems to be an unsustainable task to them, they are free to shut down the stores and let people install whatever software they like on their phones.

Unless this happens, the vast majority of the population will never experience the liberty that computers afford.

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#124

Post by nixpulvis » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 8:49 AM UTC

collaborative wrote: post #106

cartoonworld wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment, and the truth within it, causes me to think of Stallman. Aside discoverability, usability and the messaging problem of selling libre software to Mom, proprietary software and walled gardens will just do this to people. At this time in history there is not really a viable option to access the huge market of app stores with de facto monopolies of the app ecosystem aside from hoping some multinational corp…

Thanks Overall, I am optimistic about the future. I don't expect developing solo will make financial sense anytime soon, but I imagine the scales have to start turning at some point The current treatment we get from Apple and Google is beyond belief. We add value to their respective platforms almost for free, and what little we make they take a fee from it. To top it off, Apple even charges us to be able to work for…

Here here!

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#125

Post by breakfastduck » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

adar wrote: post #98

breakfastduck wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the famous walled garden of Android. What?

What else would you call the Play Store on which the vast, vast majority of Android users acquire apps? Please don't bring up F-Droid or the Amazon App Store as alternatives, that's just a joke compared to the sheer volume of app installs (and more importantly, purchases) on the Play Store.

Just because alternatives are not as popular as the default store does not make it anywhere close to being a walled garden. I'm not sure you understand what the term means.

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#126

Post by breakfastduck » Fri, Jul 16, 2021, 12:08 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #108

breakfastduck wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the famous walled garden of Android. What?

Like Apple, Google also mandates that apps distributed via the Play Store must use Google's payment system[1], and give Google a 15% to 30% cut of revenue: > Developers charging for apps and downloads from Google Play must use Google Play's billing system as the method of payment. Google prevents mobile app distribution competitors from competing with the Play Store on feature parity because user installable 3rd part…

I don't think you understand what a walled garden is.

There's a default store, sure.

But there's literally nothing preventing you using a 3rd party store or even installing apks directly on the device.

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#127

Post by whoknowswhat11 » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #3

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #2

Meanwhile developers complain that the app store cut is too high for small devs. Heads up. If a big tech co is not going to make back money from you - the amount of careful human review by well paid folks is going to be minimal because the scale of cheap / free users is so high.

You just tried to call out people complaining about the cut they take right now with the logic that leads to piss poor service (terrible take but let's roll with it) Right now OP is getting piss poor service. So how does A relate to B in the context of this post? You think there's worse than the current 0 percent warning and support they got, or...

Would devs do a more standard Sony/Playstation type agreement?

Something like maybe $10K per year base, and then extra to get an app certified etc? Similar cut in the end?

There are models that allow for better service- problem is they tend to be expensive for smaller devs

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#128

Post by whoknowswhat11 » Mon, Jul 19, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

raptorfactor wrote: post #8

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #2

Meanwhile developers complain that the app store cut is too high for small devs. Heads up. If a big tech co is not going to make back money from you - the amount of careful human review by well paid folks is going to be minimal because the scale of cheap / free users is so high.

So they need to take a huge cut to provide awful service regardless? Huh?

For many (most) small developers, they are not taking a "huge" amount of money.

One developer at apple is around 300K, or around $600K with overhead.

Many of these smaller apps pay maybe $100 + a tiny bit of sales which are small. You call this "huge" money. This is not. Apple will provide global distribution / accessibility etc for almost nothing (they also will give you xcode etc etc as part of your $100). Devs want gold plate expert service but don't want to pay for it.

Have you been involved in any tech to tech co deals? The amounts apple is taking here are tiny - to apple they are zero for small devs.

Re: My app just got removed with no prior warning

#129

Post by BoorishBears » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #127

BoorishBears wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just tried to call out people complaining about the cut they take right now with the logic that leads to piss poor service (terrible take but let's roll with it) Right now OP is getting piss poor service. So how does A relate to B in the context of this post? You think there's worse than the current 0 percent warning and support they got, or...

Would devs do a more standard Sony/Playstation type agreement? Something like maybe $10K per year base, and then extra to get an app certified etc? Similar cut in the end? There are models that allow for better service- problem is they tend to be expensive for smaller devs

I hate when people make comments that assume no one will call them out on obvious BS.

I was part of Nintendo's dev program in the Wii days, grand cost was 0 dollars a year. NOA lent us dev kits worth thousands of dollars and we had direct forum access to software developers working for Nintendo.

Sony and Microsoft will do similar.

You're talking about arrangements where Sony is acting at least in-part as a publisher, not indie titles going up on their shop as is comparable.