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Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#91

Post by slg »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #83
slg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A shield can inflict damage just like a sword can. Encryption hiding the details of a murder plot can be just as crucial as an exploit that reveals a murder target's location.

And you will be jailed should you murder someone with a shield. But since the primary purpose of a shield is defense, it's assumed you will not use it as a blunt weapon. Buying a two handed longsword will definitely get you on some list, however. Stop trying to find gotchas. Weapons (read: items whose primary goals are to inflict damage, maim, kill, injure, destroy) are and should be regulated.

The point of OP's original comment is that it isn't enough for the seller to assume that the customers will use the product in a legal manner. Once you start holding the seller legally liable for use of their product, the primary purpose of that product becomes irrelevant. All possible uses must now be considered when selling a product.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#92

Post by dillondoyle »

dogorman wrote: post #6
pmoriarty wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's arguably an even bigger "win" for them if they kill off or imprison those journalists.

They're doing that too... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashog... These firms are helping authoritarian regimes kill and imprison journalists. The journalists who survive by being paranoid will be made less effective by having to use less effective methods of communication, which likely aren't understood by the people journalists talk to (whistleblowers, witnesses, etc.)

The articles show that his wife (or whoever was his partner idk status) was hacked around the time of his murder.

Also reports Mexican journalist was hacked, then executed right after at an obscure location. Heavily implies GPS tracking was used for the hit.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#93

Post by amelius »

sudosysgen wrote: post #52
ackbar03 wrote: post #13

Aren't these private hacking companies breaking the law though? Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something? From what I understand in most cases, any attempts to reverse engineer or exploit any system is against terms of service with the offender held liable. Some teenager who comes up with a game hack can be slapped with a massive fine, but these hacking companies aren't even breaking th…

Rule of law is a joke. If you work for your government and don't anger the politicians you can workout sweetheart deals that will shield you from the law completely, unless you fall out of political favour. But they are breaking the law. Same as many security agencies. It just doesn't matter.

What if someone with a hacked phone crosses borders and enters e.g. the US. Would the Israeli spyware company who hacked the phone be liable now?

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#94

Post by bambax »

krisoft wrote: post #53
bambax wrote: post #33

> The investigation by the Guardian and 16 other media organisations suggests widespread and continuing abuse of NSO’s hacking spyware, Pegasus, which the company insists is only intended for use against criminals and terrorists. (from the Guardian inquiry about the same topic). Every time we allow special laws or special tools to fight "terrorism" or "child abuse" or other evils that get people worked up, they end u…

How do I allow laws? Or rather what does it mean to not “allow” a law? You are right. Terrorism and cp are commonly used excuses to enable even more surveillance. When you talk about “allowing laws” it makes it sound as if we somehow got conned into letting them have these laws. In reality powerfull people want these tools. Powerfull people get these tools. Where does the allowing happen exactly? And don’t tell me th…

Yes the wording is imperfect. I meant "accept", as in, not protest until they are repealed. Voting is useless as all main political parties typically agree on this.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#95

Post by azernik »

ruined wrote: post #18
ackbar03 wrote: post #13

Aren't these private hacking companies breaking the law though? Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something? From what I understand in most cases, any attempts to reverse engineer or exploit any system is against terms of service with the offender held liable. Some teenager who comes up with a game hack can be slapped with a massive fine, but these hacking companies aren't even breaking th…

nso group is based in israel. suing them for activities directed by the israeli state is not likely to be effective. it would be like trying to sue a ransomware group in russia, or a phone company in america.

In this case it's not directed by the Israeli state; the Israeli state just doesn't really care, and doesn't want to interfere with the post-army job prospects of intelligence personnel.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#96

Post by sudosysgen »

amelius wrote: post #93
sudosysgen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rule of law is a joke. If you work for your government and don't anger the politicians you can workout sweetheart deals that will shield you from the law completely, unless you fall out of political favour. But they are breaking the law. Same as many security agencies. It just doesn't matter.

What if someone with a hacked phone crosses borders and enters e.g. the US. Would the Israeli spyware company who hacked the phone be liable now?

In theory it should be, in reality good luck getting any damages or penalties.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#97

Post by smashah »

The people who work in these companies should be absolutely shunned and black listed from laundering their past by taking up a role at any major tech firm.

The people who work at NSO and companies like this are a stain on the whole tech industry and are outcasted by their own IOF peers for being greedy and morally-lacking.

Absolutely disgusting to think your hands are clean while you make tools that directly empower dictators and keep whole regions of people subjugated.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#98

Post by mahkeiro »

ruined wrote: post #18
ackbar03 wrote: post #13

Aren't these private hacking companies breaking the law though? Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something? From what I understand in most cases, any attempts to reverse engineer or exploit any system is against terms of service with the offender held liable. Some teenager who comes up with a game hack can be slapped with a massive fine, but these hacking companies aren't even breaking th…

nso group is based in israel. suing them for activities directed by the israeli state is not likely to be effective. it would be like trying to sue a ransomware group in russia, or a phone company in america.

No but at least try to make sure that people working for them are banned from the international security community. They are clearly not working for the good guys (specifically here French journalist under surveillance of Morocco spies)

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#99

Post by Zigurd »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #51
colordrops wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://grapheneos.org/

Cat and mouse game. The foundations of computing must be completely reworked if we are to ever have any real security.

You have touched on the real problem: Most of our digital devices have way too many attack surfaces.

If you can secure a movie from being copied by the owner of the device showing the movie, you can hide spyware on that device. That's OK for a usb gizmo you plug into your TV, but why would supposedly security minded enterprises accept that in their computers?

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