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Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#81

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Are there U.S. laws NSO Group has violated? If not, how would laws define the prohibited activity?

We’re at the point of, at the very least, barring NSO Group, its employees and its investors from travelling to the U.S., using our financial system or keeping assets here. (Which would indirectly bar our police departments and agencies from contracting with them.)

Financing terrorism is a crime. Aiding and abetting journalistic suppression should be in a similar, albeit lower severity, category.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#82

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ackbar03 wrote: post #13

Aren't these private hacking companies breaking the law though? Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something? From what I understand in most cases, any attempts to reverse engineer or exploit any system is against terms of service with the offender held liable. Some teenager who comes up with a game hack can be slapped with a massive fine, but these hacking companies aren't even breaking th…

> Does anyone know why no one has sued them or arrested them or something?

Facebook is suing NSO Group and winning, at least on procedural grounds [1].

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-nso-cyber-idUSKB...

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#83

Post by ohgodplsno »

slg wrote: post #57
zatertip wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that obvious? An exploit is to encryption as a sword is to a shield. We don't regulate shields.

A shield can inflict damage just like a sword can. Encryption hiding the details of a murder plot can be just as crucial as an exploit that reveals a murder target's location.

And you will be jailed should you murder someone with a shield. But since the primary purpose of a shield is defense, it's assumed you will not use it as a blunt weapon. Buying a two handed longsword will definitely get you on some list, however.

Stop trying to find gotchas. Weapons (read: items whose primary goals are to inflict damage, maim, kill, injure, destroy) are and should be regulated.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#84

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

benlivengood wrote: post #69
josephcsible wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what does it mean to not “allow” a law? Voting against any politicians who contribute to its passing, even if they're from your preferred political party.

Vote for approval voting, ranked choice, or even instant runoff at every level of government so that voting against an incumbent at least has a viable candidate.

I worry that making voting more complicated and giving people more candidates to vote for might actually backfire.

We already see this in American primary elections where the incumbent runs against a half dozen or more “nobodies” and seems to win on name recognition and vote splitting alone.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#85

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

krisoft wrote: post #53
bambax wrote: post #33

> The investigation by the Guardian and 16 other media organisations suggests widespread and continuing abuse of NSO’s hacking spyware, Pegasus, which the company insists is only intended for use against criminals and terrorists. (from the Guardian inquiry about the same topic). Every time we allow special laws or special tools to fight "terrorism" or "child abuse" or other evils that get people worked up, they end u…

How do I allow laws? Or rather what does it mean to not “allow” a law? You are right. Terrorism and cp are commonly used excuses to enable even more surveillance. When you talk about “allowing laws” it makes it sound as if we somehow got conned into letting them have these laws. In reality powerfull people want these tools. Powerfull people get these tools. Where does the allowing happen exactly? And don’t tell me th…

>” When you talk about “allowing laws” it makes it sound as if we somehow got conned into letting them have these laws.”

This is a very Machiavellian and realpolitik take, so please keep that in mind. People in a democracy “allow” laws whenever they just continue to live normally. Sure, you can protest with signs and vote differently in the next election, but we know that’s not particularly effective at shaking the status quo.

What does “not allowing” a law look like? Civil disobedience, defiance, harassing politicians, and trying to force change. In essence, it’s average people and activists using every tool at their disposal to force the politicians to act differently. We saw plenty of this in 2020.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#86

Post by dogma1138 »

bjourne wrote: post #40

I know it's not a foolproof solution but perhaps there should be a greater focus on ethics in Computer Science curricula? The Israeli developers who wrote this software may not even have been exposed to the moral and ethical questions writing such software ought to raise. Perhaps there should be trade associations for developers that calls out software companies that writes immoral software? With great power comes gr…

How are they different to the Italian developers that worked on Da Vinci/Galileo or the British and German developers that worked on FinFisher?

Plenty of people work on products that may be immoral in some application or frame of reference.

Developing technologies that facilitate the predatory practices for social media networks, ad targeting, gaming/gambling and plenty of other shit.

And this goes beyond tech I don’t think that the 40 something machinist that works at Glock in Austria or the 23 year old EE engineer that works on imagines sensors for BAE in the UK some loses sleep at night because a handgun or some guided bomb somewhere killed someone.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#87

Post by drummer »

pope_meat wrote: post #80

That's why I keep it simple. I run things out of a closet with an air gaped computer, a single printer, and a gun...in case the printer starts acting suspicious.

> in case the printer starts acting suspicious.

These days that is a very real possibility if you run Windows.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#88

Post by lvs »

briefcomment wrote: post #72
bambax wrote: post #33

> The investigation by the Guardian and 16 other media organisations suggests widespread and continuing abuse of NSO’s hacking spyware, Pegasus, which the company insists is only intended for use against criminals and terrorists. (from the Guardian inquiry about the same topic). Every time we allow special laws or special tools to fight "terrorism" or "child abuse" or other evils that get people worked up, they end u…

It might hard to accept this, but "public health" is now a part of the surveillance justification tool kit too. When it's impossible to argue against measures taken in defense of public health without seeming selfish, why wouldn't it be?

Not where I live. Is your request simply not to be seen as selfish while making a selfish argument?

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#89

Post by Dah00n »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81

Are there U.S. laws NSO Group has violated? If not, how would laws define the prohibited activity? We’re at the point of, at the very least, barring NSO Group, its employees and its investors from travelling to the U.S., using our financial system or keeping assets here. (Which would indirectly bar our police departments and agencies from contracting with them.) Financing terrorism is a crime. Aiding and abetting jou…

>We’re at the point of, at the very least, barring NSO Group

I haven't followed the US response to the behaviour of NSO Group but if things like you mention have already been done I very much doubt it isn't a smokescreen. The US is arguably the biggest user and customer to these kinds of services.

>Financing terrorism is a crime

Yes but if you have the power to define what is and what isn't terrorism (or journalistic suppression) then a law is useless. Fixing this is beyond the reach of a representative democracy and the likes. It needs a full-on direct democracy and enough citizens that are against it or a Dictatorship with a dictator that is against it. Otherwise any law pretending to be against stuff like this are at best a smokescreen or at worst a plot to keep it for those in power but out of reach of anyone else.

Re: Private Israeli spyware used to hack cellphones of journalists, activists

#90

Post by dillondoyle »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81

Are there U.S. laws NSO Group has violated? If not, how would laws define the prohibited activity? We’re at the point of, at the very least, barring NSO Group, its employees and its investors from travelling to the U.S., using our financial system or keeping assets here. (Which would indirectly bar our police departments and agencies from contracting with them.) Financing terrorism is a crime. Aiding and abetting jou…

In at least one of the articles I've read so far they mention an American citizen journalist living in the UK whose phone was hacked. He was reporting on IMDB and looks like UAE corruption was why he got hacked.

So perhaps that's a way in? If not law in civil court? pardon my lack of legal jargon/knowledge

"Also listed in the leaked records is a UK phone number belonging to the American investigative journalist Bradley Hope, who lives in London. At the time of his selection he was an employee at the Wall Street Journal."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/ft-editor-roul...

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