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Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

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Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#261

Post by zaptheimpaler »

hutrdvnj wrote: post #124
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tried WSL, was buggy and had some issues with filesystem performance i think. I prefer having a 100% real linux & windows OSes that just work over slightly buggy workarounds. Plus i also host a lot of homeserver services (media server, SMB server, postgres db etc) on the linux host and its cleaner having those run on the host. If i want to do something very demanding on the host for example I can shutdown the VM.

Wouldn't it be easier to have 2 devices, one specifically designed for gaming and one running 24/7 for home server services. A cheap used Thinkpad could be used as linux device so it doesn't have to be expensive. Plus if you value your own time and effort you have to put in for your current setup, then it might actually be cheaper.

It might, but I am cheap :) and i like to run heavy workloads on the home server/devbox as well which would take a well specced $700-800 PC.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#262

Post by genewitch »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #104
genewitch wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this uses vfio then no, the host never sees the GPU, it's blind to it from boot.

Not really a problem, you can unbind the VFIO driver

> linux /vmlinuz-5.10.27-gentoo root=/dev/nvme0n1p2 ro amd_iommu=on iommu=pt pcie_acs_override=downstream,multifunction pci-stub.ids=10de:1b82,10de:10f0

the host never sees the card.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#263

Post by tmzt »

I've wanted to build this forever on top of coreboot. A kvm host (like firecracker), VFIO, and keyboard shortcut to send commands to the VM instead of underlying system.

This would include snapshot, switch systems, and something like snapshot and fork the running system.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#264

Post by matja »

pizza234 wrote: post #259
aetherspawn wrote: post #155

I'm an engineering software contractor and every client has a whole bucket load of outdated IDEs and random USB interface drivers they want me to install on my machine. Often this stuff has weird specific version dependencies, kernel level drivers that cause weird things to happen (like the computer to BSOD if you boot it up with other USB devices attached), random system level crashes, and when you go to the driver…

The specification you present is a bit unclear. Any modern virtualization has very fast CPU virtualization (it's hard to say near-native, as there are always corner cases), and snapshotting tools. I don't know about Sharepoint; the "clone installs" is a bit fuzzy too, but one can clone installed systems by just copying the underlying image file and ensuring that it has a unique identifier (and updating the guest O/S…

For the USB part, would adding a extra USB adaptor card (assuming it's a desktop machine) and using PCI-passthrough/VFIO on that adaptor make it easier? From my knowledge of QEMU, then no USB emulation is involved - the guest OS sees the entire USB adaptor (and the host doesn't) - so one can have all the special USB hardware connected to that.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#265

Post by shmerl »

JustStoppinIn89 wrote: post #53
29athrowaway wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use Proton. Install games from Steam directly.

This is a non-answer. Steam is not and should not be the sole source of video games on PC. This is a workaround that doesn't even work as well as you imply. > Just use Windows. Install games from developers directly. See how silly that sounds to you ?

I'm mostly buying games from GOG, not Steam. You can perfectly use Wine, Wine staging and Proton without Steam for them.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#266

Post by chrisseaton »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #258
chrisseaton wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right it’s not a realistic suggestion as not even the client does it in software!

Why do you think that? The server needs to at the very least trace a line for a shot. There is nothing difficult or slow about that. Before you say that it is done with a z-buffer or something similar, think about third person camera angles or how older games did the same thing. You might want to pull back on being so certain if you don't have experience with game engines or graphics.

> Why do you think that? The server needs to at the very least trace a line for a shot. There is nothing difficult or slow about that. Before you say that it is done with a z-buffer or something similar, think about third person camera angles or how older games did the same thing. You might want to pull back on being so certain if you don't have experience with game engines or graphics.

But... it is done with a z-buffer.

If an opponent is obscured behind a nearby pillar or something, that's not going to be culled in software - that's done by the hardware z-buffer as part of the render process.

You can see this for yourself if you look at a game being run with wireframe rendering. You'll see it's in the same render node so it's still rendered - it's just obscured by closer geometry. And it's how some cheats actually work - they basically turn the wireframe back on!

'Tracing a shot' is casting one single ray.

For example read this article someone else linked https://technology.riotgames.com/news/demolishing-wallhacks-... and look at the last animation.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#267

Post by chrisseaton »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #257
chrisseaton wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to render all graphics on the server? I’m not sure that’s really a tractable suggestion.

Why would that be necessary? You realize the server already has to do a line of sight calculation to determine if a shot hits right?

Think about many times a second you have to trace a shot.

Now think about how many times a second you'd need to trace from every pixel on the screen to every part of the geometry on every opponent in order to check if it was visible or not to see if a player was legitimately able to view any part of their opponent.

For example read this article someone else linked https://technology.riotgames.com/news/demolishing-wallhacks-... and look at the last animation.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#268

Post by mpfundstein »

alisonkisk wrote: post #246
aetherspawn wrote: post #155

I'm an engineering software contractor and every client has a whole bucket load of outdated IDEs and random USB interface drivers they want me to install on my machine. Often this stuff has weird specific version dependencies, kernel level drivers that cause weird things to happen (like the computer to BSOD if you boot it up with other USB devices attached), random system level crashes, and when you go to the driver…

why don't you require clients to provide a lab machine for all their requirements?

hi. i have the same problem. because those lab machines usually SUCK!

i have my own custom build servers at home now and virtualize everything. every client has own VM and I usually RDP/ssh into them for work.

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#269

Post by compsciphd »

wheybags wrote: post #198
aetherspawn wrote: post #155

I'm an engineering software contractor and every client has a whole bucket load of outdated IDEs and random USB interface drivers they want me to install on my machine. Often this stuff has weird specific version dependencies, kernel level drivers that cause weird things to happen (like the computer to BSOD if you boot it up with other USB devices attached), random system level crashes, and when you go to the driver…

You could netboot off an iscsi target on another machine, which is backed by an image file on a zfs volume. That way you get all the nice zfs features of snapshotting, and windows just thinks it's using a hard drive. You could even skip zfs and just use a qemu image file, with qemu-nbd you can have it present as a block device, and you can then export that block device as an iscsi target. Then you can use qemu-img fo…

I was actually wondering about this a while ago, one can netboot windows? i.e. no "local" storage, all accessed over the network? or does it depend on the hypervisor, i.e. the hypervisor access the storage over the network, but to windows, its a local disk?

Re: Looking Glass: Run a Windows VM on Linux in a window with native performance

#270

Post by wheybags »

compsciphd wrote: post #269
wheybags wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could netboot off an iscsi target on another machine, which is backed by an image file on a zfs volume. That way you get all the nice zfs features of snapshotting, and windows just thinks it's using a hard drive. You could even skip zfs and just use a qemu image file, with qemu-nbd you can have it present as a block device, and you can then export that block device as an iscsi target. Then you can use qemu-img fo…

I was actually wondering about this a while ago, one can netboot windows? i.e. no "local" storage, all accessed over the network? or does it depend on the hypervisor, i.e. the hypervisor access the storage over the network, but to windows, its a local disk?

You can, with no hypervisor at all, just running on bare metal, so long as your mobo / nic supports it (which I believe most do). I haven't ever personally done it though, so ymmv.
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