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Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

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Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#171

Post by heavyset_go »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #90
spamizbad wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the "marketplace of ideas" is being distorted by algorithms that are going to favor "provocative" ideas that drive clicks. Exciting lies defeat boring truths.

That is no doubt true (about how the algorithms work). At the same time what we see is that there is a market, demand, for misinformation. And some people are making money from that. Why is there so much misinformation about Covid vaccines and vaccines in general? Because people want to believe in such misinformation and because that allows websites to make money from their readership. Therefore the peddling of misin…

> Weekly World News

This has always been obvious satire.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#172

Post by eloff »

sbuk wrote: post #58
eloff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So he wasn't saying what people today think he was saying. Let me fix it: Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security will eventually lose both and deserve neither. - me, 2021 Doesn't quite carry the same weight with my name behind it, but I stand by it nonetheless.

I agree with your sentiment, in part, but I see this quote used in this context so often, that I felt that it's worth pointing out.

Yes, it was interesting to read about the historical context, thanks for pointing it out. I also think the contemporary interpretation of literature, or a quote in this case, often matters more than what the author originally intended - it can take on a life of its own.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#173

Post by [deleted] »

spamizbad wrote: post #59
Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

That's because the "marketplace of ideas" is being distorted by algorithms that are going to favor "provocative" ideas that drive clicks. Exciting lies defeat boring truths.

[deleted]

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#174

Post by LoveLeadAcid »

Just do what smart people have been doing for years - stop using big tech. Stop using Google, Facebook, Apple, IBM, Microsoft. Buy a used computer and install a Free OS and just check out of the entire big tech ecosystem.

Otherwise you get what you deserve. And let’s all disabuse ourselves of the incorrect notion that it’s big tech alone which is ordering censorship. It’s our own governments, who use the many secret laws and intelligence agency relationships (all of big tech is basically In-Q-Tel) to get what they want.

Make it difficult for them. Don’t play nice. Dissent. Stop using PRISM platforms.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#175

Post by bitwize »

Yes, censorship is bad, but which is worse: admitting a little bit of censorship, or Nazis? Because uh, right now, we have Nazis.

In Germany, if you express Nazi views you will be arrested and thrown in prison. Germany is, according to many metrics, freer than the USA. Perhaps because of its laws that put Nazis in prison.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#176

Post by slashdev »

betterunix2 wrote: post #108
eloff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I will not sacrifice free speech for added protection from terrorists.

Free speech absolutism has not worked very well. Usenet was overrun by neonazis and all the interested discussions moved to moderated newsgroups/mailing lists/forums. A genocidal terrorist organization made effective us of various social media platforms to recruit large numbers of people to their cause and the world is a better place now that they have been banned. Right now we are missing one of our best chances to…

> Right now we are missing one of our best chances to end the COVID pandemic -- widespread vaccination -- because too many people are spreading lies about the vaccine on social media.

That's mostly a trust issue. If you silence their concerns you're just going to confirm that it's a grand conspiracy theory. You have to fight misinformation with the truth, with dialog, not with censorship.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#177

Post by candiddevmike »

A little off topic, but wouldn't an easier fix for some of the addiction and misinformation bubbles be to legislate, by law, that all "feed apps" always show things newest to oldest and require users to consciously click, everytime, to show "top" or "hot". This would help a lot to fix the "zombie feed scrolling" in my opinion and prevent engagement algorithms from only showing polarizing content.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#178

Post by Smeevy »

TheFalun wrote: post #112
pueblito wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely one can conceive of effective ways to limit to damage the police can do to people short of abolishing the police. For example, disarm the police and they can’t shoot you.

Or just have public audits of police forces and provide accountability and transparency into cases as necessary. In addition good policing should be rewarded with significant bonuses. Incentivizing good behavior will always Trump criticizing "bad" (often never defined) behavior.

I personally would rather see disciplinary action akin to what's done in the military. Not that that isn't without its issues, but the machinery that makes it work is larger and more independent from the people being disciplined than what you get at the state and local law enforcement level.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#179

Post by throwawayboise »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #161
jsnell wrote: post #30

This all sounds very nice, but there's a bit of sleight of hand here since the article goes out of its way to avoid details. That way everyone reads into exactly what they want, and it's totally non-obvious whether this is actually a workable proposal or not. But what's the concrete proposal here? How would things actually work? Will the services be forced to accept whatever unmoderated feed of filth the linked to se…

>But what's the concrete proposal here? How would things actually work? Will the services be forced to accept whatever unmoderated feed of filth the linked to service sends their way? If not, how is this supposed to fix the moderation problem? Does gmail block emails from your friends containing misinformation? Why should facebook be allowed to do the same thing?

Google is apparently going to be doing that with content on Drive. Not sure what they've said or not said about gMail but what's the difference, really?

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#180

Post by tlholaday »

spamizbad wrote: post #59
Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

That's because the "marketplace of ideas" is being distorted by algorithms that are going to favor "provocative" ideas that drive clicks. Exciting lies defeat boring truths.

It seems unfair to deprecate algorithms which "favor 'provocative' ideas that drive clicks" as a `distortion` of the marketplace of ideas.

It seems more that by driving clicks, the algorithms are `facilitating` the marketplace. People are signaling the ideas they prefer, idea suppliers are producing more of such ideas, and the people get these ideas at ever-lower prices.

How is that in any way a distortion of an ideal marketplace?

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