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Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

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Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#151

Post by MrStonedOne »

politician wrote: post #68

It would be workable to designate these social platforms as public spaces, removing liability for speech entirely off of the proprietors and onto the courts if we also implemented mandatory licensing for use of these networks. You can’t drive without a license and identification. It’s not dystopian to suggest that, as a society, we’re at a point where we need to insist on public places on the Internet and personal ac…

>You can’t drive without a license and identification. It’s not dystopian to suggest that, as a society, we’re at a point where we need to insist on public places on the Internet and personal accountability for speech.

ay yo you got a license for that speech?

ya, no, it is dystopian to suggestion people should have to have a license to speak.

And you will never sell me that speaking on the internet and speaking in the public are different enough to justify it.

social media sites have become the new town square. General public speech has moved from afk to on the internet, you can't just ignore this because its inconvenient to your view point.

The same protections we have for speech in an town square should exist for speech on the virtual town square. ie: only moderated by the courts under protection of the 1st amendment.

I'm not going to accept less.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#152

Post by mousepilot »

vsareto wrote: post #83

>The promise of the ACCESS Act is an internet where if you don’t like a big platform’s moderation policies, if you think they’re too tolerant of abusers or too quick to kick someone off for getting too passionate during a debate, you can leave, and still stay connected to the people who matter to you. Use any number of other communication methods or services that brilliant humans have invented to allow us all to talk…

Still there are folks that cannot deal with anything outside of Facebook, ie., cannot run a regular browser because they simply don't know how.

We have CLEARLY reached such technical ineptitude.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#153

Post by archagon »

wyager wrote: post #148
Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

> I can see that factually incorrect, scientifically illiterate, conspiratorial, harmful crank ideas gain legs in the online world we've created. The fact that you phrase your characterization of incorrect ideas like this suggests with pretty high certainty that you don’t exactly have a great birds’-eye view of the epistemic landscape yourself. People who characterize the “opposition” this way mostly get their ideas…

The fact that you equivocate NPR and Pravda means you’ve huffed plenty of those fumes yourself.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#154

Post by seizethegdgap »

TheFalun wrote: post #105
Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

“But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth; if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of…

You're using the quote of someone who lived and died before the invention of the telephone, and also ignoring that he also advocated for a 'harm principle' (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle) which states "...that for such actions as are prejudicial to the interests of others, the individual is accountable, and may be subjected either to social or to legal punishments, if society is of opinion that the one or the other is requisite for its protection."

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#155

Post by cdirkx »

sneak wrote: post #132
Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

> Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. This is plausible, so people believe it. Fortunately, it is false. Compare the state of the world regarding germ theory, human rights, smoking, racism, education, the belief in violence to solve problems, or the delusion that is theism to the world 100 years ago. It used to…

But are those ideas winning because people are rationally chosing to believe in them in the marketplace of ideas, or just that we grew up with them and the people with contrary beliefs are dying out.

There is a saying that "science advances one funeral at a time" because even professors etc., one of the most rational group of people on the planet I would think, have biases against new theories despite evidence supporting them, instead sticking to what they already know even if it would be disproven.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#156

Post by rootusrootus »

throwawayboise wrote: post #135
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think antivax conspiracy makes a lot of impact. Current vaccination rate in the US is 55%. This is comparable with the number of people who, for example, do a dental check-up at least once a year, which is 60%, although there's no dentists conspiracy theory, at least not such a popular one. P.S. those downvoting, please feel free to, but I would highly appreciate a couple of lines on what's wrong with the mes…

Agreed. I doubt that half the population thinks that the COVID vaccine is a conspiracy to kill them, render them infertile, or depopulate the earth. I'm not vaccinated, and I don't believe those things. I do see the dentist every 6 months though.

Tribal politics is probably a better predictor than fringe theories.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#157

Post by throwaway316943 »

notahacker wrote: post #116
readflaggedcomm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the algorithm distorts conversation, then how can you be sure it more accurately reflects human nature? How does something that isn't a marketplace of ideas prove it's dumb? Or should this question be punished by your algorithm?

The main agenda the algorithm has is selecting stuff human nature has a high propensity to click on...

Alternatively, it simply makes it easier to click on the presented content than to purposely seek out other content. Front pages and headlines dominate media for a reason.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#158

Post by Mountain_Skies »

Not that Cory is wrong but his words would hold more weight if boingboing hadn't been engaging in the behavior he decries for over a decade. Memory holing people who they no longer feel "are wonderful" and removing vowels from posts they don't agree with are just two examples of the type of activity they've long engaged in. These aren't cases of off-topic discussion, threats, or other attempts at derailing discussions, they're personality, romantic, or ideological disagreements that aren't allowed to exist.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#159

Post by robertlagrant »

worker767424 wrote: post #129
spamizbad wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the "marketplace of ideas" is being distorted by algorithms that are going to favor "provocative" ideas that drive clicks. Exciting lies defeat boring truths.

I actually think algorithms are more likely to promote things that either reinforce your existing beliefs or incite outrage.

That is an idea extremely unlikely to be contested, given what we've known for a few years now.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#160

Post by wyager »

archagon wrote: post #153
wyager wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can see that factually incorrect, scientifically illiterate, conspiratorial, harmful crank ideas gain legs in the online world we've created. The fact that you phrase your characterization of incorrect ideas like this suggests with pretty high certainty that you don’t exactly have a great birds’-eye view of the epistemic landscape yourself. People who characterize the “opposition” this way mostly get their ideas…

The fact that you equivocate NPR and Pravda means you’ve huffed plenty of those fumes yourself.

> Voting Republican is to enact fascism and tear down the tenants of democracy in the US

You seem like a skilled political analyst, so I defer to your expertise. One correction - it’s spelled “tenets”.

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