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When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

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Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#51

Post by BJBBB »

BJBBB wrote: post #37

Anecdotal, but they are data points. 1. Co-worker, apparently healthy cauc make age 43, received Pfizer vaccine, contracted covid approx 33 days after 2d dose. Was in hospital for 3 weeks and has had various problems for several months. 2. Neighbor's kid, very fit (volleyball, track) hispanic female age 16, received Pfizer vaccine, has had joint problems, headaches, dizziness, and other symptoms since being vaccinate…

I am not an anti-vaxer.

I did not say that we should not vaccinate against the covid virus.

I did not disparage any political view point.

I did not include any racial or ethnic slurs.

Supposedly educated and informed people need to be careful and always remain analytical whether or not the presentation of empirical data are coincident with your belief system. And if you down-vote, have the technical and ethical veracity to provide a comment as to why you think I am full of doggy doo-doo.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#52

Post by mikem170 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
briefcomment wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting proof of antibodies would be an even better way for everyone to get what they want right?

Unfortunately, no. Natural immunity is less durable against variants [1]. (Proof of exposure should be fine, though, for low-risk stuff in areas not undergoing an outbreak.) Given that and assuming we’ll have a permanently unvaccinated population, the virus would be expected to keep reinfecting that group, thereby increasing the selection pressure for strains that reinfect. [1] https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/2…

The original paper [0] the article you quoted is based on doesn't say that the vaccine is better than natural immunity, just that it is different:

> Therefore, antibody immunity acquired by natural infection or different modes of vaccination may have a differing susceptibility to erosion by SARS-CoV-2 evolution.

They seem to be saying their tests showed that the vaccine antibodies better handled the receptor mutations they created (how much better? 100%? or 1%?), but that antibodies from a natural infection target other parts of the virus besides just the receptor (possibly offering broader protection).

> The neutralizing activity of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more targeted to the receptor-binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein compared to antibodies elicited by natural infection. However, within the RBD, binding of vaccine-elicited antibodies was more broadly distributed across epitopes compared to infection-elicited antibodies.

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34103407/

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#53

Post by Auracle »

owenmarshall wrote: post #3
briefcomment wrote: post #2

Why is there no widespread antibody testing to see if we've reached herd immunity? The push to vaccinate is only necessary if we're not there yet. I recall a study from a couple months ago claiming several times more people caught the virus than was generally thought.

The US on Friday saw the highest daily increase in cases since May. We don’t need to test for herd immunity; it’s patently obvious we haven’t reached it.

Well, we probably had in most places. The variant changed the math, but we’ll get there soon enough again.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#54

Post by [deleted] »

postoak wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. This is the only sympathetic group out of the bunch. (Lots of people are ignorant of a lot of things for lots of reasons, sometimes at great cost. Those costs are generally theirs to carry.) Practically, however, that sympathy has limits. Should we shut down New York…

Although I think covid vaccine hesitancy is dumb at this point (yet don't think you can punish hesitant people) - Why should only those groups be hesitant? Anyone who can read history can see that happened even if it didn't affect their relatives. The government isn't known for being very effective or trustworthy lately, why should people think their incompetence/malice should be limited to those groups? Plenty of pe…

[deleted]

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#55

Post by BJBBB »

tmn wrote: post #47

Have others listened to Bret Weinstein on this subject? Thoughts? He by all accounts is credible and provides plenty of nuance for reasons to be skeptical

'Nuance' is not usable as data for making decisions. 'Nuance' tends to be used in lieu of empirical data.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#56

Post by jjgreen »

justusw wrote: post #43
guilhas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In UK more than 50% of deaths are vaccinated

Do you have a source on this?

63% according to this link [1], along with an explanation as to why this is not an alarming number (TL;DNR if everyone were vaccinated, then 100% of deaths would be vaccinated).

https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politi...

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#57

Post by tboyd47 »

BJBBB wrote: post #51
BJBBB wrote: post #37

Anecdotal, but they are data points. 1. Co-worker, apparently healthy cauc make age 43, received Pfizer vaccine, contracted covid approx 33 days after 2d dose. Was in hospital for 3 weeks and has had various problems for several months. 2. Neighbor's kid, very fit (volleyball, track) hispanic female age 16, received Pfizer vaccine, has had joint problems, headaches, dizziness, and other symptoms since being vaccinate…

I am not an anti-vaxer. I did not say that we should not vaccinate against the covid virus. I did not disparage any political view point. I did not include any racial or ethnic slurs. Supposedly educated and informed people need to be careful and always remain analytical whether or not the presentation of empirical data are coincident with your belief system. And if you down-vote, have the technical and ethical verac…

You didn’t get downvoted because you had the wrong opinion or behavior; you got downvoted because you have the wrong facts. In this day and age, some truths just cannot be spoken anymore.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#58

Post by dang »

BJBBB wrote: post #51
BJBBB wrote: post #37

Anecdotal, but they are data points. 1. Co-worker, apparently healthy cauc make age 43, received Pfizer vaccine, contracted covid approx 33 days after 2d dose. Was in hospital for 3 weeks and has had various problems for several months. 2. Neighbor's kid, very fit (volleyball, track) hispanic female age 16, received Pfizer vaccine, has had joint problems, headaches, dizziness, and other symptoms since being vaccinate…

I am not an anti-vaxer. I did not say that we should not vaccinate against the covid virus. I did not disparage any political view point. I did not include any racial or ethnic slurs. Supposedly educated and informed people need to be careful and always remain analytical whether or not the presentation of empirical data are coincident with your belief system. And if you down-vote, have the technical and ethical verac…

Please don't break the site guidelines by going on about downvotes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It sucks to get downvoted, but it happens to everyone. Moreover, unfairly downvoted comments usually (though not always) eventually get corrective upvotes: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor.... This happened with your comment above. Meanwhile the off-topic meta complaint lingers on as uncollected garbage even after it has been falsified.

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#59

Post by [deleted] »

joezydeco wrote: post #49
smt88 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history". Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again. And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic. Add lots of misinfo…

They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again I sympathize with that statement, and maybe this is just semantics, but did we ask Black people to receive the vaccine first? Everybody has equal access.

[deleted]

Re: When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disinterest

#60

Post by guilhas »

jjgreen wrote: post #56
justusw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source on this?

63% according to this link [1], along with an explanation as to why this is not an alarming number (TL;DNR if everyone were vaccinated, then 100% of deaths would be vaccinated). https://www.deccanherald.com/international/world-news-politi...

Imagine 95% of adults are vaccinated, and 95% of covid deaths are vaccinated

I don't think that the article does enough to dismiss it. And since every older and at risk person was vaccinated you have no one to compare to

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