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Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

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Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#301

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

sgregnt wrote: post #12
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but personally I would argue that it almost always makes more financial sense to do a combined Masters-PhD (i.e. a research degree), especially in fields with plentiful funding. That was the case for me in Ireland when I did my doctorate.

Can you share which fields are these?

Definitely not psychology, which is what my doctorate's in.

Generally, more hard-sciencey type fields tend to have better funding (physics, engineering that sort of thing). They also have less PhD students, because there are more opportunities in industry so less competition for places.

It seems like CS is one of those disciplines also, tbh.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#302

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

unishark wrote: post #19
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but personally I would argue that it almost always makes more financial sense to do a combined Masters-PhD (i.e. a research degree), especially in fields with plentiful funding. That was the case for me in Ireland when I did my doctorate.

In engineering a MS pays best, at least historically. Lately PhD's are becoming very common and much more product-oriented I'd say (as opposed to long-term high-risk research). So may be a better ticket to the upper ranks of technical tracks at large tech companies.

Historically, with professional degrees you are totally correct. I think that's more because there's a professional organisation ensuring that people get rewarded for better qualifications.

I mean, PhD's are great if you want to learn how to structure and finish a long-term project, and learn how to research. I definitely don't regret mine, but I remember looking the the cost structure of masters vs PhD's and concluding that masters were for suckers as you could always just finish a PhD in 18 months with a research masters.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#303

Post by nswest23 »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #82
depressedpanda wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, I don't even have a bachelor's degree in CS, and I haven't suffered at all because of it. I got a job offer before graduating, and decided my time was better spent earning money than learning stuff I would probably never have any use for. Rather than focusing on degrees, I think it's a lot more important to focus on learning, however you don't know what's important to learn until you actually start workin…

Funny how those of us who didn't spend more than a couple years in school think the rest of the years are probably a waste, and those that did spend a lot of time and money in school think it was useful.

I had a BA in business and wanted to get into tech field (no idea what, at the time). Decided to get MS in Information Science. That helped me get an internship which enabled me to add some tech-related experience to my resume which was a jumping off point that launched my tech career. My feeling about getting a MS at this point is that it was gatekeeping. I could have done that job pre-masters and everything I've learned about programming has been on-the-job training or self-directed.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#305

Post by ta2021JULY »

tomrod wrote: post #7
ta2021JULY wrote: post #6

I can only speak from myself (Economics, in Portugal). In employability terms, my master's degree was not a good investment, and these degrees are cheap here compared to the US (I payed 5k for two years). I do however feel I developed plenty of resillience due to the amount of studying I had to do, a real understanding of what academic life is like by doing my thesis (we are not very exposed to papers in the undergra…

Don't forget to factor in the opportunity cost of 2 years of lost wages!

"Fortunately" wages in Portugal are low, so the associated opportunity cost is not that high :)

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#306

Post by websites2022 »

skewart wrote: post #247
websites2022 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were sold something that hasn't held true, and I think a lot of people are very bitter about that. In what way has it not held true? 33% of Americans have at least a four year degree and earn an average of $1m more than their peers without over their lifetimes. By all measures, university is a gateway to easy money after. So long as you finish.

I bet Ferrari owners earn even more than that compared to people without Ferraris. I don’t think that means we should tell young people to take out loans to buy a Ferrari because it’s a ticket to easy money. When the only kids going to college were either rich or highly motivated then having a degree made you stand out and could open doors. When everyone gets a degree it doesn’t make you stand out any more. Instead,…

>When everyone gets a degree it doesn’t make you stand out any more.

Then let’s talk when we get closer to everyone having a degree. 33% is not everyone and “a degree” is not a single product that can be compared 1:1 across each instance.

> most kids in the US need to take on a lot of debt just so the don’t get left behind

The average student loan debt for undergraduate degrees is $28,950. This is not “a lot of debt.”

According to the valuation analysts at Kelley Blue Book, the estimated average transaction price for a light vehicle in the United States was $37,876 in 2020.

That is to say, on average, students are taking on the debt for a 4 year education, that sets them up on average to earn a million dollars more in their lifetime than their peers who don’t, for less than the average transaction price for a light vehicle — an asset that depreciates ~20% when you take it off the lot.

And you get the keep the credentials a lot longer.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#307

Post by hda111 »

bekantan wrote: post #285
pacman2 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ROTFL. This is called "Volkshochschule" in Germany. Hochschule can be translated to University. One guy from former Yugoslavia took an accounting course there, got a certificate and had this translated (to Serbian, Croatian or whatever). The translater did indeed translate Volkshochschule to Peoples University and the guy managed to secure a Professor position with it at a University. Of cause later this caused a sca…

Strange, they must have also "translated" the certificate to a PhD in that case :)

In Germany the PhD isn’t necessary to become a Professor. Not sure about the other country though.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#308

Post by chana_masala »

depressedpanda wrote: post #75
wffurr wrote: post #40

My masters degree in Computer Science was incredibly educating and opened many career doors for me. It filled in a lot of gaps that my undergraduate education left, and significantly raised my profile amongst recruiters. CS might be the exception to the rule about Masters degrees though.

Conversely, I don't even have a bachelor's degree in CS, and I haven't suffered at all because of it. I got a job offer before graduating, and decided my time was better spent earning money than learning stuff I would probably never have any use for. Rather than focusing on degrees, I think it's a lot more important to focus on learning, however you don't know what's important to learn until you actually start workin…

> learning stuff I would probably never have any use for.

I hear this so much, and I used to be one of the people saying it. Until I actually 1) learned that stuff and 2) realized I don't want to just write glue code. I like writing compilers. I like writing efficient data structures. I use my CS education a lot.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#309

Post by quantumofalpha »

murderfs wrote: post #299
quantumofalpha wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You meant STEM OPT? H1B masters pool only marginally improves H1B lottery chances, which are far too low today to begin with.

My understanding is that the masters pool is a rather significant improvement in your chances: some Googling finds a random source that claims your chances are 60% higher: https://www.waylit.com/post/what-are-my-chances-of-h1b-lotte...

Whereas OPT not being lottery-based is 100%, no? And more importantly, you can pretty much go work wherever you want with it, every tech firm is ok with it, but relatively few bother with H1B today for overseas candidates.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#310

Post by alanfranz »

fnord77 wrote: post #174
phsource wrote: post #150

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

we've had foreign job candidates with masters degrees in CS from top 50 schools who couldn't pass a simple programming test or who couldn't answer some basic CS questions on O(n) or whatnot. I'm not talking sadistic google interview questions, these were things that anyone with a BS should be able to answer.

for "top 50 schools", what "top 50" are you implying? top 50 worldwide? top 50 us? or top 50 in their own foreign country?

As a sidenote: a lot of CS/Software Engineering graduates with a bachelor in my own country (Italy) can't pass simple programming tests, because most of the education is (too?) focused on theoretical aspects, and most of the time people is tested with non-practical exams.

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